1
00:00:08,010 --> 00:00:02,950
this is right sprague and i am here with

2
00:00:14,650 --> 00:00:08,020
my uk friends and this is

3
00:00:20,470 --> 00:00:17,510
[Music]

4
00:00:22,620 --> 00:00:20,480
this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

5
00:00:39,430 --> 00:00:22,630
spread

6
00:00:44,630 --> 00:00:41,510
welcome to somewhere in the skies i am

7
00:00:47,430 --> 00:00:44,640
your host ryan sprague and uh there has

8
00:00:49,270 --> 00:00:47,440
been a lot of chatter a claimed contact

9
00:00:51,910 --> 00:00:49,280
d a term that we're gonna talk about

10
00:00:55,910 --> 00:00:51,920
tonight on our show uh a claimed

11
00:00:58,549 --> 00:00:55,920
contactee in 2021 a woman who goes by

12
00:01:01,430 --> 00:00:58,559
the name anjali if you are not familiar

13
00:01:04,390 --> 00:01:01,440
with this story it's very interesting

14
00:01:06,630 --> 00:01:04,400
it's uh controversial and it's all the

15
00:01:09,590 --> 00:01:06,640
rage in the ufo community

16
00:01:12,710 --> 00:01:09,600
right now um so i thought what better

17
00:01:15,510 --> 00:01:12,720
time to bring on the person

18
00:01:18,469 --> 00:01:15,520
in my personal opinion the expert on the

19
00:01:21,030 --> 00:01:18,479
contacty movement he is the host of the

20
00:01:23,350 --> 00:01:21,040
saucer life podcast one of my favorite

21
00:01:25,429 --> 00:01:23,360
shows to listen to so without further

22
00:01:28,390 --> 00:01:25,439
ado i'm going to bring him on aaron

23
00:01:30,950 --> 00:01:28,400
golias welcome to somewhere in the skies

24
00:01:34,230 --> 00:01:30,960
brother hey ryan how's it going

25
00:01:36,710 --> 00:01:34,240
good good now i have to admit i think

26
00:01:39,670 --> 00:01:36,720
this is the first time i'm having you on

27
00:01:42,230 --> 00:01:39,680
the show just you i think so featured in

28
00:01:44,950 --> 00:01:42,240
the show yeah i've done some audio uh

29
00:01:46,310 --> 00:01:44,960
from your lecture at a uh at a

30
00:01:47,830 --> 00:01:46,320
conference we did together in nova

31
00:01:49,510 --> 00:01:47,840
scotia but this is the first time i

32
00:01:51,670 --> 00:01:49,520
actually have you on so it's an honor

33
00:01:53,590 --> 00:01:51,680
and pleasure man it's great to be here

34
00:01:55,590 --> 00:01:53,600
thank you thank you well let's talk

35
00:01:58,870 --> 00:01:55,600
about that before we get into your your

36
00:02:01,270 --> 00:01:58,880
origin story um and how you got involved

37
00:02:05,429 --> 00:02:01,280
with all this craziness um let's talk

38
00:02:07,270 --> 00:02:05,439
about esoteric on 2018. i know

39
00:02:10,389 --> 00:02:07,280
it seems like a million years ago right

40
00:02:12,710 --> 00:02:10,399
but um man and you were there and uh tim

41
00:02:15,350 --> 00:02:12,720
bernal and greg bishop and walter bosley

42
00:02:18,630 --> 00:02:15,360
and micah hanks so it was um uh holly

43
00:02:21,190 --> 00:02:18,640
stevens and it was it was just a great

44
00:02:23,830 --> 00:02:21,200
great event that that paul kimball put

45
00:02:25,910 --> 00:02:23,840
together out there in halifax

46
00:02:28,150 --> 00:02:25,920
absolutely i mean i

47
00:02:31,350 --> 00:02:28,160
i will always cherish those memories

48
00:02:33,190 --> 00:02:31,360
i've stayed up till 2 30 in the morning

49
00:02:33,990 --> 00:02:33,200
chatting with you guys all about all

50
00:02:36,150 --> 00:02:34,000
this

51
00:02:38,390 --> 00:02:36,160
ufo stuff paranormal everything in

52
00:02:40,470 --> 00:02:38,400
between paul put on an incredible

53
00:02:42,309 --> 00:02:40,480
incredible event are there any other

54
00:02:45,430 --> 00:02:42,319
memorable moments you have from that

55
00:02:46,390 --> 00:02:45,440
esoteric on that you can uh drum up for

56
00:02:48,229 --> 00:02:46,400
us here

57
00:02:51,750 --> 00:02:48,239
i think uh

58
00:02:54,550 --> 00:02:51,760
i i think probably my um

59
00:02:56,229 --> 00:02:54,560
my one of my favorites was

60
00:02:58,710 --> 00:02:56,239
um

61
00:03:04,470 --> 00:03:02,070
being uh in the airbnb house we were all

62
00:03:06,070 --> 00:03:04,480
in uh recording um

63
00:03:10,710 --> 00:03:06,080
an episode of greg bishop's radio

64
00:03:12,710 --> 00:03:10,720
mysterioso uh podcast that was it was um

65
00:03:14,309 --> 00:03:12,720
i'm not sure i don't think it made it

66
00:03:16,790 --> 00:03:14,319
into the archives just because there are

67
00:03:19,430 --> 00:03:16,800
so many people in the room talking i

68
00:03:21,350 --> 00:03:19,440
can't imagine too much profanity right

69
00:03:23,030 --> 00:03:21,360
a lot of profanity um one of those

70
00:03:25,270 --> 00:03:23,040
things was

71
00:03:27,190 --> 00:03:25,280
much more if you yet you had to be there

72
00:03:29,110 --> 00:03:27,200
a sort of thing so from from a listener

73
00:03:32,070 --> 00:03:29,120
point of view it might not have been um

74
00:03:34,789 --> 00:03:32,080
the greatest experience but i uh i love

75
00:03:37,750 --> 00:03:34,799
that some incredible conversations and

76
00:03:40,149 --> 00:03:37,760
on things ranging from ufos to ghosts to

77
00:03:42,869 --> 00:03:40,159
to cryptids to the whole uh the whole

78
00:03:44,789 --> 00:03:42,879
weirdness gamut uh was sort of run there

79
00:03:47,190 --> 00:03:44,799
so i really enjoyed that

80
00:03:49,990 --> 00:03:47,200
yeah it was a time i will never forget

81
00:03:53,270 --> 00:03:50,000
and my first time meeting you in person

82
00:03:54,309 --> 00:03:53,280
and um and and the lecture you gave was

83
00:03:56,390 --> 00:03:54,319
by far

84
00:03:57,910 --> 00:03:56,400
my favorite and we we'll get to the

85
00:04:00,070 --> 00:03:57,920
lecture because that's kind of what i

86
00:04:02,630 --> 00:04:00,080
want to talk to you about a little later

87
00:04:04,229 --> 00:04:02,640
on here in the conversation but um

88
00:04:06,229 --> 00:04:04,239
i gotta ask aaron how did you get

89
00:04:10,470 --> 00:04:06,239
involved with all this as a kid like

90
00:04:12,949 --> 00:04:10,480
like junior high age or so i um

91
00:04:15,750 --> 00:04:12,959
i i watched a lot of in search of as a

92
00:04:17,909 --> 00:04:15,760
kid old in search of reruns with leonard

93
00:04:19,749 --> 00:04:17,919
nimoy from back in the 70s and and so

94
00:04:21,830 --> 00:04:19,759
this was like you know the mid 80s so

95
00:04:23,590 --> 00:04:21,840
they were on in the afternoons whenever

96
00:04:25,749 --> 00:04:23,600
whenever the cubs game got done early

97
00:04:28,070 --> 00:04:25,759
they'd slap on an in search of episode

98
00:04:30,070 --> 00:04:28,080
on on sunday afternoons or whatever so i

99
00:04:32,310 --> 00:04:30,080
was aware of ufos and the whole

100
00:04:34,550 --> 00:04:32,320
paranormal thing and then i can't

101
00:04:36,390 --> 00:04:34,560
remember the the exact name of the book

102
00:04:38,070 --> 00:04:36,400
but it was by a guy named daniel cohen

103
00:04:40,830 --> 00:04:38,080
who wrote books like the world's most

104
00:04:44,390 --> 00:04:40,840
famous ghosts and lots of lots of young

105
00:04:47,430 --> 00:04:44,400
reader-oriented ufo and paranormal stuff

106
00:04:49,270 --> 00:04:47,440
and i just sort of got into it and then

107
00:04:52,870 --> 00:04:49,280
in in high school

108
00:04:55,030 --> 00:04:52,880
i um i think i was

109
00:04:57,350 --> 00:04:55,040
a senior in high school

110
00:05:01,110 --> 00:04:57,360
when the x-files premiered

111
00:05:02,790 --> 00:05:01,120
so i remember being like 17 and watching

112
00:05:04,710 --> 00:05:02,800
that first episode of the x-files and

113
00:05:07,830 --> 00:05:04,720
then go going to read

114
00:05:10,390 --> 00:05:07,840
um howard blum's book out there which

115
00:05:13,350 --> 00:05:10,400
was my introduction to the whole mj 12

116
00:05:15,350 --> 00:05:13,360
nonsense and all of that and so i then i

117
00:05:17,749 --> 00:05:15,360
just went off to college in 94 and

118
00:05:19,510 --> 00:05:17,759
discovered the internet and um once you

119
00:05:20,870 --> 00:05:19,520
discover the internet the the rest is

120
00:05:24,629 --> 00:05:20,880
history

121
00:05:27,749 --> 00:05:24,639
um with some of these things and um got

122
00:05:30,150 --> 00:05:27,759
into the the contact east stuff um

123
00:05:32,710 --> 00:05:30,160
mostly because it was different it was

124
00:05:34,790 --> 00:05:32,720
not grays and abductions it uh it just

125
00:05:37,189 --> 00:05:34,800
went from there and then

126
00:05:39,590 --> 00:05:37,199
sort of you know got involved in in

127
00:05:42,710 --> 00:05:39,600
commenting in conversations on the the

128
00:05:45,830 --> 00:05:42,720
ufo blogosphere in the the early 2000s

129
00:05:48,070 --> 00:05:45,840
and and 2010s which is where i i met

130
00:05:51,430 --> 00:05:48,080
greg bishop and paul kimball and mac

131
00:05:52,629 --> 00:05:51,440
tony's and and all of those guys um

132
00:05:55,189 --> 00:05:52,639
and then

133
00:05:57,749 --> 00:05:55,199
you know ended up expanding my

134
00:05:59,029 --> 00:05:57,759
my thesis into uh my first book uh

135
00:06:00,710 --> 00:05:59,039
extraterrestrials and the american

136
00:06:02,550 --> 00:06:00,720
zeitgeist which sort of narrowed down

137
00:06:04,830 --> 00:06:02,560
things to the contactees

138
00:06:07,430 --> 00:06:04,840
and it just sort of went from there and

139
00:06:10,150 --> 00:06:07,440
then in 2017

140
00:06:12,150 --> 00:06:10,160
i started uh the saucer life just

141
00:06:15,270 --> 00:06:12,160
because i i saw

142
00:06:16,870 --> 00:06:15,280
room for a ufo podcast that wasn't an

143
00:06:18,710 --> 00:06:16,880
interview format

144
00:06:21,670 --> 00:06:18,720
that was more of a documentary format

145
00:06:23,110 --> 00:06:21,680
that was sort of envisioned it as

146
00:06:27,029 --> 00:06:23,120
sort of like dan carlin's hardcore

147
00:06:29,430 --> 00:06:27,039
history but with ufos and not episodes

148
00:06:31,510 --> 00:06:29,440
that are eight hours long um and coming

149
00:06:33,670 --> 00:06:31,520
out more than once a year so that was

150
00:06:35,830 --> 00:06:33,680
sort of the impetus for that and and now

151
00:06:38,629 --> 00:06:35,840
i've sort of expanded beyond that a

152
00:06:41,270 --> 00:06:38,639
little bit with a new podcast um with a

153
00:06:43,189 --> 00:06:41,280
a co-host my friend samantha engel

154
00:06:45,670 --> 00:06:43,199
called great lakes lore where we look at

155
00:06:47,670 --> 00:06:45,680
weird history and paranormal stuff

156
00:06:50,070 --> 00:06:47,680
more from the perspective of

157
00:06:53,510 --> 00:06:50,080
professional historians looking at these

158
00:06:56,629 --> 00:06:53,520
things so um it's been

159
00:06:59,189 --> 00:06:56,639
a fairly constant presence in my life

160
00:07:02,390 --> 00:06:59,199
for the last

161
00:07:03,749 --> 00:07:02,400
almost 30 years which is wow troubling

162
00:07:05,510 --> 00:07:03,759
but um

163
00:07:07,430 --> 00:07:05,520
but yeah yeah there and sort of

164
00:07:09,510 --> 00:07:07,440
branching out into more political

165
00:07:11,830 --> 00:07:09,520
conspiracy culture and

166
00:07:13,350 --> 00:07:11,840
and the more time i spend with all of it

167
00:07:17,029 --> 00:07:13,360
the

168
00:07:17,990 --> 00:07:17,039
goofier i think it all is um it's

169
00:07:21,430 --> 00:07:18,000
yeah

170
00:07:24,710 --> 00:07:21,440
it's a gift and a curse i know for sure

171
00:07:26,790 --> 00:07:24,720
well okay so um the contacting movement

172
00:07:28,550 --> 00:07:26,800
i want to use that buzzword contact for

173
00:07:30,950 --> 00:07:28,560
a moment with you for any of our

174
00:07:33,670 --> 00:07:30,960
listeners who may not be familiar with

175
00:07:36,710 --> 00:07:33,680
what that is what it really entails when

176
00:07:38,950 --> 00:07:36,720
it all kind of rose to prominence i

177
00:07:41,350 --> 00:07:38,960
guess would you mind giving us as a

178
00:07:42,830 --> 00:07:41,360
professor kind of your uh your cliff

179
00:07:46,469 --> 00:07:42,840
notes version

180
00:07:48,230 --> 00:07:46,479
yeah movement is yeah please yeah the

181
00:07:49,909 --> 00:07:48,240
the sort of thumbnail sketch of the

182
00:07:53,670 --> 00:07:49,919
contact e movement so

183
00:07:54,469 --> 00:07:53,680
in the 1950s and into the 1960s one of

184
00:07:56,790 --> 00:07:54,479
the

185
00:07:59,270 --> 00:07:56,800
sort of strands of

186
00:08:01,029 --> 00:07:59,280
flying saucer research that was out

187
00:08:03,589 --> 00:08:01,039
there a flying saucer culture that was

188
00:08:04,390 --> 00:08:03,599
out there was um

189
00:08:05,749 --> 00:08:04,400
this

190
00:08:08,950 --> 00:08:05,759
group of people

191
00:08:09,830 --> 00:08:08,960
who claimed that they had had some kind

192
00:08:12,150 --> 00:08:09,840
of

193
00:08:14,309 --> 00:08:12,160
personal contact with extraterrestrial

194
00:08:17,270 --> 00:08:14,319
beings it might be physical like an

195
00:08:19,990 --> 00:08:17,280
actual physical encounter it might be

196
00:08:21,510 --> 00:08:20,000
a a channeled experience sort of

197
00:08:24,469 --> 00:08:21,520
psychically channeled

198
00:08:25,990 --> 00:08:24,479
it might be even something sort of kind

199
00:08:28,869 --> 00:08:26,000
of like psychic channeling even

200
00:08:29,909 --> 00:08:28,879
automatic writing in some cases

201
00:08:30,869 --> 00:08:29,919
so

202
00:08:33,670 --> 00:08:30,879
these

203
00:08:35,670 --> 00:08:33,680
contact the experiences have some

204
00:08:38,310 --> 00:08:35,680
commonalities

205
00:08:40,870 --> 00:08:38,320
for the most part almost entirely the

206
00:08:45,110 --> 00:08:40,880
extraterrestrial visitors that we that

207
00:08:47,670 --> 00:08:45,120
we see in these cases have um

208
00:08:51,190 --> 00:08:47,680
come from cultures that are that are

209
00:08:53,350 --> 00:08:51,200
remarkably earth-like they come mostly

210
00:08:56,310 --> 00:08:53,360
from planets within our solar system

211
00:08:58,630 --> 00:08:56,320
venus was very popular this is before we

212
00:09:01,430 --> 00:08:58,640
knew that venus was was basically

213
00:09:03,350 --> 00:09:01,440
an ammonia atmosphere a hellhole right

214
00:09:05,430 --> 00:09:03,360
um so

215
00:09:07,430 --> 00:09:05,440
they're they're human in appearance

216
00:09:10,310 --> 00:09:07,440
they're like us they're like earthlings

217
00:09:12,790 --> 00:09:10,320
their civilizations were once like earth

218
00:09:15,430 --> 00:09:12,800
but they evolved beyond that they

219
00:09:18,310 --> 00:09:15,440
evolved beyond things like warfare and

220
00:09:21,269 --> 00:09:18,320
destruction and greed and environmental

221
00:09:25,750 --> 00:09:21,279
degradation and racial strife and things

222
00:09:27,509 --> 00:09:25,760
like this and so they wanted to

223
00:09:31,910 --> 00:09:27,519
help earth

224
00:09:35,269 --> 00:09:31,920
by warning humans of the dangers of

225
00:09:37,030 --> 00:09:35,279
especially nuclear warfare and atomic

226
00:09:39,509 --> 00:09:37,040
weapons that that there were threats

227
00:09:41,670 --> 00:09:39,519
that if humanity were to have

228
00:09:43,509 --> 00:09:41,680
you know a nuclear war a global nuclear

229
00:09:45,829 --> 00:09:43,519
war it would not only destroy the earth

230
00:09:48,389 --> 00:09:45,839
it would cause cosmic repercussions to

231
00:09:50,150 --> 00:09:48,399
all these other planets so

232
00:09:51,829 --> 00:09:50,160
the contact e movement contact the

233
00:09:52,949 --> 00:09:51,839
experiences

234
00:09:54,790 --> 00:09:52,959
tend to

235
00:09:57,910 --> 00:09:54,800
have these these similarities and and

236
00:09:58,790 --> 00:09:57,920
probably the biggest one is that in some

237
00:10:01,750 --> 00:09:58,800
way

238
00:10:03,509 --> 00:10:01,760
there is some kind of

239
00:10:05,269 --> 00:10:03,519
message some kind of social message

240
00:10:08,069 --> 00:10:05,279
political message

241
00:10:09,430 --> 00:10:08,079
economic message some kind of

242
00:10:12,310 --> 00:10:09,440
um

243
00:10:13,350 --> 00:10:12,320
some kind of of of

244
00:10:17,030 --> 00:10:13,360
preaching

245
00:10:20,230 --> 00:10:17,040
in a way a didactic lesson on how

246
00:10:21,590 --> 00:10:20,240
humanity uh how humanity can uh can

247
00:10:23,670 --> 00:10:21,600
evolve and

248
00:10:24,870 --> 00:10:23,680
these groups are these these people are

249
00:10:26,310 --> 00:10:24,880
all from

250
00:10:29,030 --> 00:10:26,320
advanced civilizations but they're

251
00:10:32,470 --> 00:10:29,040
civilizations that had once been as bad

252
00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:32,480
as us but overcame that humanity

253
00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:34,480
on earth still in

254
00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:36,640
the cosmic kindergarten is a phrase that

255
00:10:42,550 --> 00:10:40,320
was used a lot and we have a lot of a

256
00:10:47,269 --> 00:10:42,560
lot of growing up to do

257
00:10:49,990 --> 00:10:47,279
the movement faded by the early 60s as

258
00:10:52,870 --> 00:10:50,000
ufology that's a sort of anachronistic

259
00:10:54,630 --> 00:10:52,880
term at the time but ufology became more

260
00:10:56,550 --> 00:10:54,640
focused on

261
00:10:59,910 --> 00:10:56,560
nuts and bolts

262
00:11:02,550 --> 00:10:59,920
let's just catalog sightings of supposed

263
00:11:04,310 --> 00:11:02,560
craft and if we catalog enough sightings

264
00:11:06,550 --> 00:11:04,320
we'll learn something i think we're

265
00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:06,560
still waiting for you know to hit

266
00:11:10,069 --> 00:11:08,640
whatever critical mass that is of

267
00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:10,079
sightings we collect before we know

268
00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:12,959
answers um things moved more toward

269
00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:15,120
there's a cia air force cover-up of

270
00:11:19,990 --> 00:11:16,720
things the

271
00:11:21,509 --> 00:11:20,000
nycap organization model of ufo research

272
00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:21,519
kind of takes over we need to approach

273
00:11:26,630 --> 00:11:24,160
this with a scientific mind and look at

274
00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:26,640
this as a you know very serious

275
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:28,880
sort of aerospace based threat the

276
00:11:32,389 --> 00:11:30,800
contact ease were an embarrassment it

277
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:32,399
didn't really help that many of their

278
00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:35,200
stories were easily debunked easily

279
00:11:39,829 --> 00:11:37,920
dismissed easily proven

280
00:11:42,310 --> 00:11:39,839
to be hoaxes and they make outrageous

281
00:11:43,190 --> 00:11:42,320
claims that they can't really back up

282
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:43,200
but

283
00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:44,160
um

284
00:11:51,750 --> 00:11:47,920
they do persist contactism does persist

285
00:11:53,350 --> 00:11:51,760
through the 60s into the 70s by the 80s

286
00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:53,360
and one of the contactees i'll be

287
00:11:57,269 --> 00:11:54,880
discussing in a bit

288
00:11:59,509 --> 00:11:57,279
is largely responsible for

289
00:12:01,670 --> 00:11:59,519
one of the ways one of the reasons this

290
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:01,680
continues but there are uh there are

291
00:12:06,550 --> 00:12:03,440
contactees today as you mentioned there

292
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:06,560
are contact elements to uh to anjali's

293
00:12:12,389 --> 00:12:10,240
story there are um also contactees or

294
00:12:15,509 --> 00:12:12,399
they're also contacty

295
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:15,519
adherents uh believers who

296
00:12:18,389 --> 00:12:17,040
cling to

297
00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:18,399
the original

298
00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:20,560
messages that were spread by the some of

299
00:12:25,350 --> 00:12:23,519
those contactees from back in the 1950s

300
00:12:27,430 --> 00:12:25,360
and 60s so

301
00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:27,440
it appeared it was

302
00:12:32,550 --> 00:12:30,000
a big sort of thing and then it it kind

303
00:12:35,670 --> 00:12:32,560
of faded but persists

304
00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:35,680
sort of as a as an undercurrent of of

305
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:37,360
what's still

306
00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:39,360
part of the the ufo

307
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:42,480
tapestry today um well i should mention

308
00:12:46,470 --> 00:12:44,399
i've got the book right here one of my

309
00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:46,480
favorites um i believe you signed this

310
00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:48,880
one too yup i did it i think so yeah

311
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:51,360
yeah yeah um well one of the words in

312
00:12:56,389 --> 00:12:54,160
there in the title is american and i

313
00:12:58,069 --> 00:12:56,399
might be getting ahead of myself here

314
00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:58,079
erin but um

315
00:13:01,750 --> 00:12:59,600
because we're going to talk about your

316
00:13:04,389 --> 00:13:01,760
top three favorite contact stories

317
00:13:06,629 --> 00:13:04,399
tonight but i know there's hundreds um

318
00:13:08,470 --> 00:13:06,639
is this primarily something you found in

319
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:08,480
your research that is

320
00:13:13,190 --> 00:13:11,440
very western or even more specific very

321
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:13,200
american

322
00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:17,120
it is in its origins um

323
00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:20,320
but there are contacty stories that

324
00:13:25,509 --> 00:13:23,839
happen in various parts of the world

325
00:13:27,910 --> 00:13:25,519
the episode of the saucer life i'm

326
00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:27,920
finishing up right now is about an

327
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:29,519
experience in

328
00:13:34,150 --> 00:13:31,279
in great britain with a couple of

329
00:13:37,030 --> 00:13:34,160
contact experiences in great britain

330
00:13:39,269 --> 00:13:37,040
our most recent episode went to uh went

331
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:39,279
to east asia with some cases of weird

332
00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:41,760
humanoid sightings in malaysia and

333
00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:45,360
contacted experiences in japan

334
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:47,279
there is a

335
00:13:52,150 --> 00:13:49,440
there are a few prominent uh one in

336
00:13:53,990 --> 00:13:52,160
particular prominent contact d case in

337
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:54,000
in south africa

338
00:13:59,189 --> 00:13:56,639
what is significant though i think and

339
00:14:01,350 --> 00:13:59,199
what sort of links this to

340
00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:01,360
the american context is that these

341
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:03,760
contact the experiences in other parts

342
00:14:07,030 --> 00:14:05,040
of the world

343
00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:07,040
follow the american model

344
00:14:12,629 --> 00:14:10,480
and in some cases are

345
00:14:15,189 --> 00:14:12,639
especially in in the case in japan that

346
00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:15,199
i mentioned are are explicitly sort of

347
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:16,880
experienced by

348
00:14:22,870 --> 00:14:19,440
people or reported and interpreted by

349
00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:22,880
people who are devotees of those

350
00:14:28,069 --> 00:14:25,120
american contactees

351
00:14:31,030 --> 00:14:28,079
i i think in in places like africa in

352
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:31,040
south africa in particular um there's

353
00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:33,600
there's sort of two strands of

354
00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:35,120
of um

355
00:14:39,269 --> 00:14:37,040
and this is a huge topic to get into so

356
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:39,279
i'm just going to sort of narrow it down

357
00:14:42,550 --> 00:14:40,560
a little bit

358
00:14:43,670 --> 00:14:42,560
there's sort of two strands of of

359
00:14:46,870 --> 00:14:43,680
african

360
00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:46,880
ufo contacts there's one that is

361
00:14:51,829 --> 00:14:49,760
sort of different and very sort of sort

362
00:14:53,670 --> 00:14:51,839
of indigenous african in context and

363
00:14:56,069 --> 00:14:53,680
then there's a especially during the 50s

364
00:14:59,110 --> 00:14:56,079
and 60s and and 70s and even into the

365
00:15:00,790 --> 00:14:59,120
80s there's a strand of african ufology

366
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:00,800
that is that is basically

367
00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:03,920
what i would term colonialist ufology um

368
00:15:07,829 --> 00:15:04,720
it's

369
00:15:10,389 --> 00:15:07,839
white

370
00:15:13,829 --> 00:15:10,399
people living in africa in the aftermath

371
00:15:14,949 --> 00:15:13,839
of the end of colonialism um sort of

372
00:15:17,110 --> 00:15:14,959
being

373
00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:17,120
an outpost for european or american

374
00:15:21,509 --> 00:15:20,800
ufology if that makes sense so

375
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:21,519
in

376
00:15:27,269 --> 00:15:24,480
some cases what you have is is this sort

377
00:15:29,110 --> 00:15:27,279
of colonialism in

378
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:29,120
in the in the

379
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:32,480
the what had been the colonized world um

380
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:33,680
sort of

381
00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:40,480
colonialist roots and saying you know

382
00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:42,240
i'm you know you can say this is an

383
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:44,720
african ufo case it's like well this is

384
00:15:48,870 --> 00:15:47,040
an african ufo case in the sense that

385
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:48,880
it's a white person of british descent

386
00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:50,720
living in apartheid era south africa

387
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:52,560
that that's not

388
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:54,160
necessarily

389
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:55,199
you know

390
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:56,880
putting yourself in a position to say

391
00:16:01,030 --> 00:15:58,560
well it's very multicultural this white

392
00:16:02,069 --> 00:16:01,040
person's from over here you know so it's

393
00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:02,079
you know one of those one of those

394
00:16:06,790 --> 00:16:03,839
things where but then there's other

395
00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:06,800
other african ufo stories that are that

396
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:09,040
are you know distinct and different and

397
00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:11,279
and sort of more fundamentally

398
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:14,480
local to the area and to the um to the

399
00:16:18,150 --> 00:16:16,160
indigenous population if that makes

400
00:16:20,389 --> 00:16:18,160
sense but there there are there are

401
00:16:23,829 --> 00:16:20,399
global aspects to it but often the

402
00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:23,839
pattern is the one set by uh set by the

403
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:25,839
american contactees

404
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:27,759
yeah it seems to always be that way

405
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:29,440
right i mean our influence around the

406
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:32,480
world our media being the number one

407
00:16:37,189 --> 00:16:34,800
import we have or influence around the

408
00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:37,199
world it even stretches into

409
00:16:41,110 --> 00:16:39,279
these weird realms of how

410
00:16:43,030 --> 00:16:41,120
uh certain cultures interpret an

411
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:43,040
experience they have we we actually just

412
00:16:48,949 --> 00:16:46,399
spoke about ufos in africa um a couple

413
00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:48,959
weeks ago here on the show and uh

414
00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:51,040
you're right a lot of these stories from

415
00:16:56,629 --> 00:16:54,560
the indigenous people uh are

416
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:56,639
are theirs alone and it's seen through

417
00:17:01,189 --> 00:16:58,880
the lens in which their culture has seen

418
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:01,199
it and there's you know a reason we

419
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:03,120
don't hear a lot about them because a

420
00:17:07,189 --> 00:17:04,480
lot of them are

421
00:17:09,350 --> 00:17:07,199
uh believed to be given these are our

422
00:17:12,390 --> 00:17:09,360
ancestors who are coming back to visit

423
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:12,400
us so why would i report this to a white

424
00:17:17,669 --> 00:17:15,520
ufo researcher living in africa at the

425
00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:17,679
time it wasn't a ufo to me it wasn't an

426
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:18,720
alien

427
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:21,600
it's a given and i find that fascinating

428
00:17:25,829 --> 00:17:23,760
how many reports we might have had had

429
00:17:26,710 --> 00:17:25,839
that uh been the case right and it might

430
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:26,720
have might have broadened our

431
00:17:29,909 --> 00:17:28,640
perspective if there were people from a

432
00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:29,919
different pers

433
00:17:32,789 --> 00:17:31,120
from a different

434
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:32,799
cultural context

435
00:17:36,630 --> 00:17:34,320
um not only reporting it but

436
00:17:38,070 --> 00:17:36,640
interpreting it and explaining it and

437
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:38,080
presenting their own

438
00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:40,960
viewpoint rather than um you know sort

439
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:41,840
of

440
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:45,280
something like this happened in iowa

441
00:17:49,270 --> 00:17:46,799
last week it was like

442
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:49,280
did it or are you just

443
00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:51,520
taking that from it because that's

444
00:17:56,470 --> 00:17:53,200
that's your point of view and your your

445
00:17:58,870 --> 00:17:56,480
perspective so um yeah the the sort of

446
00:18:00,710 --> 00:17:58,880
sort of global aspect of of contact e

447
00:18:04,390 --> 00:18:00,720
stuff is is something i'm hoping to get

448
00:18:05,830 --> 00:18:04,400
into more on the show um because i i

449
00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:05,840
don't want to say i'm running out of

450
00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:08,640
contact he's from the united states but

451
00:18:11,669 --> 00:18:09,679
um

452
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:11,679
but but i i'm running out of interesting

453
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:14,799
ones in some cases gotcha yeah my you

454
00:18:18,549 --> 00:18:17,360
know everyone always asks me um you know

455
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:18,559
how long are you going to do this

456
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:20,480
podcast for about ufos there's only so

457
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:22,240
much you could talk about and i tell

458
00:18:26,789 --> 00:18:25,200
trust me there's enough for 10 lifetimes

459
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:26,799
yeah we'll find it

460
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:28,559
out

461
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:30,480
there are some big topics that i haven't

462
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:32,080
gotten to yet because they're just so

463
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:34,080
big that it's like oh that's that's like

464
00:18:38,070 --> 00:18:36,320
gulf breeze it's like

465
00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:38,080
i don't want it to go i haven't even

466
00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:40,240
tackled that yet man you're a braver man

467
00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:45,909
i will end the show before i do a

468
00:18:51,350 --> 00:18:48,240
roswell episode i'm just i'm just not

469
00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:51,360
gonna um it's fair nope

470
00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:53,600
uh but yeah there's a lot there's an

471
00:18:57,270 --> 00:18:55,200
infinite number of topics there's an

472
00:18:59,510 --> 00:18:57,280
infinite number of ways to uh to get

473
00:19:01,750 --> 00:18:59,520
into these things and to explore them

474
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:01,760
absolutely well that that's a perfect

475
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:05,440
transition let's explore now um again

476
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:07,120
the reason i had you come on is we're

477
00:19:11,669 --> 00:19:09,200
heading towards the new year um

478
00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:11,679
countdowns are the big thing and a lot

479
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:13,520
of people love doing these lists you

480
00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:17,520
know top five top ten um so i had to ask

481
00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:19,600
you you know with all of the stories

482
00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:21,679
you've presented on the saucer life or

483
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:23,520
in your books um

484
00:19:28,870 --> 00:19:26,000
your top three favorite if you don't

485
00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:28,880
mind aaron wherever you want to start as

486
00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:31,600
much as detail as you want man i'm just

487
00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:33,840
gonna let you go okay

488
00:19:40,310 --> 00:19:36,720
and i'll spring in my my dumb jokes

489
00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:40,320
throughout so um please man what is your

490
00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:42,400
number three for your uh favorite

491
00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:44,880
contact e story okay well instead of

492
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:46,880
ranking them i'm just gonna go in

493
00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:49,679
chronological order john if that's okay

494
00:19:52,630 --> 00:19:51,440
because they're all your favorites

495
00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:52,640
they're they're all they're all

496
00:19:56,950 --> 00:19:56,080
favorites and some are favorites some

497
00:19:57,990 --> 00:19:56,960
are

498
00:20:00,950 --> 00:19:58,000
um

499
00:20:02,470 --> 00:20:00,960
too significant not to talk about gotcha

500
00:20:04,070 --> 00:20:02,480
you know especially if there's members

501
00:20:05,909 --> 00:20:04,080
of the audience who who want the

502
00:20:08,149 --> 00:20:05,919
straight dope on this you know there's a

503
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:08,159
couple of you know really significant

504
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:09,760
things and i've got two really

505
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,240
significant ones and one that is just my

506
00:20:18,230 --> 00:20:14,640
out and out favorite for

507
00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:18,240
goofiness um because it's just fun but i

508
00:20:22,230 --> 00:20:19,600
think we've got to start with georgia

509
00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:22,240
damscape the absolutely i think i got

510
00:20:27,909 --> 00:20:24,880
his book right back here or at least a

511
00:20:29,430 --> 00:20:27,919
cover of his i've got multiple copies of

512
00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:29,440
some of his books because i've clearly

513
00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:31,760
got a problem but um

514
00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:34,240
george adamski was was born in born in

515
00:20:39,190 --> 00:20:37,360
europe to to polish parents um migrates

516
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:39,200
to the united states as a child

517
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:41,520
um serves in world war one settles in

518
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:42,960
california

519
00:20:48,549 --> 00:20:46,799
and during the 1920s and 1930s gets

520
00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:48,559
involved in in spiritualist

521
00:20:53,669 --> 00:20:51,520
organizations sort of connected to uh to

522
00:20:55,750 --> 00:20:53,679
older theosophical societies and

523
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:55,760
movements and things and he establishes

524
00:21:01,270 --> 00:20:57,600
something called the royal order of

525
00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:01,280
tibet which is kind of a uh kind of a a

526
00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:03,840
mishmash of um

527
00:21:06,190 --> 00:21:05,360
of different

528
00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:06,200
sort of

529
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:07,840
pseudo-eastern

530
00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:09,840
philosophical traditions

531
00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:13,200
later it was reported that he um he said

532
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:14,640
to somebody that the only reason he did

533
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:16,960
it was because they used wine in one of

534
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:18,799
their ceremonies and it was a way to get

535
00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:20,400
around prohibition

536
00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:22,000
so it was sort of a bootlegging

537
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:25,679
operation and a spiritual um a spiritual

538
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:26,720
retreat

539
00:21:31,110 --> 00:21:29,200
love it in the 1940s

540
00:21:33,750 --> 00:21:31,120
as um

541
00:21:36,750 --> 00:21:33,760
even even before the ufo thing starts to

542
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:36,760
uh starts to take off he claimed that in

543
00:21:42,549 --> 00:21:40,720
1946 he and some followers saw a

544
00:21:44,710 --> 00:21:42,559
cigar-shaped ufo

545
00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:44,720
he didn't really talk about this before

546
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:47,200
the whole 1947 ufo

547
00:21:51,909 --> 00:21:49,120
era kicks off so

548
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:51,919
it's kind of suspect but beginning in 47

549
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:54,960
he starts uh saying that here my little

550
00:21:59,909 --> 00:21:57,360
telescope at mount palomar

551
00:22:01,830 --> 00:21:59,919
so mount palomar was an observatory in

552
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,840
california and and this is one of the

553
00:22:05,909 --> 00:22:03,360
things adamski did that was sort of

554
00:22:07,590 --> 00:22:05,919
clever he says from my telescope at

555
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:07,600
mount palomar i've seen these and

556
00:22:12,470 --> 00:22:09,840
photographed these things which gives

557
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:12,480
the impression that he was

558
00:22:17,669 --> 00:22:14,559
doing this at the observatory at mount

559
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:17,679
palomar no he worked at a hamburger

560
00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:18,640
stand

561
00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:21,120
down the road from mount palomar sort of

562
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:23,679
down the slope and had a small telescope

563
00:22:29,029 --> 00:22:26,400
there so yes it was a telescope yes it

564
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:29,039
was mount palomar but it was not

565
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:31,919
mount palomar observatory so we all beef

566
00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:34,880
up our resumes right sometimes i mean

567
00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:37,840
it's kind of the ufological way he was

568
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:41,200
he was a a pioneer in this uh sort of

569
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:47,350
yeah he starts lecturing um he's got

570
00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:50,880
photographs of ufos some are remarkably

571
00:22:57,909 --> 00:22:54,720
clear um and they all sort of sort of

572
00:23:00,630 --> 00:22:57,919
set the pattern for what the generic

573
00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:00,640
ufo is gonna look like it's a flying

574
00:23:05,190 --> 00:23:02,880
saucer it's got the dome at the top it's

575
00:23:07,830 --> 00:23:05,200
got the little landing balls underneath

576
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:07,840
the sort of skirt thing that uh that

577
00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:10,799
goes around it yep that ab yep there it

578
00:23:15,350 --> 00:23:12,720
is that is the uh that is the adamski

579
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:15,360
saucer right there

580
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:16,400
so

581
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:19,200
in 1949 and this is this is one of the

582
00:23:23,430 --> 00:23:21,600
things i love about him in 1949 he

583
00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:23,440
publishes a

584
00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:25,840
book called pioneers of space

585
00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:28,320
and it's a science fiction novel about

586
00:23:32,789 --> 00:23:30,480
some earthlings who go around the solar

587
00:23:34,549 --> 00:23:32,799
system and meet people from venus and

588
00:23:37,110 --> 00:23:34,559
mars and saturn

589
00:23:38,310 --> 00:23:37,120
and the moon and what i love about it is

590
00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:38,320
the moon people are called the

591
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:41,440
mooninites which i just think is

592
00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:42,240
just

593
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:44,080
delightful amazing

594
00:23:48,830 --> 00:23:46,240
yeah and of course each of these

595
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:48,840
civilizations he meets are

596
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:52,240
superior to uh to humans on earth but

597
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:54,240
it's presented as fiction

598
00:23:57,269 --> 00:23:55,360
and then

599
00:24:00,789 --> 00:23:57,279
in 1952

600
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:00,799
near the end of 1952 he claims that

601
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:04,320
he and some friends were out driving

602
00:24:09,909 --> 00:24:07,120
around near desert center california

603
00:24:11,909 --> 00:24:09,919
and he has an experience with a landed

604
00:24:15,350 --> 00:24:11,919
spacecraft

605
00:24:16,710 --> 00:24:15,360
and communicates telepathically and via

606
00:24:20,230 --> 00:24:16,720
you know mime

607
00:24:21,990 --> 00:24:20,240
with the occupant a a long-haired blonde

608
00:24:24,870 --> 00:24:22,000
person in a jumpsuit

609
00:24:27,669 --> 00:24:24,880
whose name is orthon

610
00:24:29,510 --> 00:24:27,679
and orthon explains that he is from

611
00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:29,520
venus and

612
00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:30,640
that

613
00:24:35,590 --> 00:24:33,760
the venusians are very worried about

614
00:24:38,630 --> 00:24:35,600
humans

615
00:24:39,669 --> 00:24:38,640
nuclear weapons testing because it might

616
00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:39,679
destroy

617
00:24:44,870 --> 00:24:42,640
the universe and this is published and

618
00:24:47,269 --> 00:24:44,880
related in a book called flying saucers

619
00:24:48,789 --> 00:24:47,279
have landed which was mostly written by

620
00:24:51,269 --> 00:24:48,799
a guy named from britain named desmond

621
00:24:53,590 --> 00:24:51,279
leslie and it was sort of a

622
00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:53,600
sort of an overview of

623
00:24:56,789 --> 00:24:54,960
things that might have been flying

624
00:25:00,470 --> 00:24:56,799
saucers throughout human history sort of

625
00:25:02,630 --> 00:25:00,480
a proto ancient astronauts you know what

626
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:02,640
about ezekiel's wheel sort of sort of

627
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:05,279
stuff and then it'd be

628
00:25:10,070 --> 00:25:07,200
yeah you know so could these have all

629
00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:10,080
been ufos back in the day

630
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:13,520
and adamski story is sort of appended to

631
00:25:18,870 --> 00:25:15,600
the end of this but it takes off like

632
00:25:20,549 --> 00:25:18,880
wildfire all the ufo newsletters are

633
00:25:23,110 --> 00:25:20,559
talking about it newspapers are talking

634
00:25:25,510 --> 00:25:23,120
about it wire services are picking it up

635
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:25,520
adamski goes on all sorts of speaking

636
00:25:32,390 --> 00:25:29,440
tours talking about this ufo clubs

637
00:25:33,909 --> 00:25:32,400
organized to talk about his ideas it's

638
00:25:36,710 --> 00:25:33,919
it's pretty major

639
00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:36,720
and then later in 1955 he writes a book

640
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:39,440
called inside the spaceships which

641
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:43,039
is mostly about his conversations about

642
00:25:47,029 --> 00:25:44,960
you know cosmic philosophy and higher

643
00:25:49,269 --> 00:25:47,039
thought and the way humans should live

644
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:49,279
in peace and harmony um

645
00:25:53,669 --> 00:25:52,000
he goes on several trips with venusians

646
00:25:55,590 --> 00:25:53,679
and saturnians

647
00:25:58,789 --> 00:25:55,600
he gives them all sort of funny george

648
00:26:01,750 --> 00:25:58,799
lucas style names fur khan ramu you know

649
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:01,760
just kind of goofy names

650
00:26:07,110 --> 00:26:05,200
um critics have pointed out that

651
00:26:08,390 --> 00:26:07,120
a lot of the things that he claims

652
00:26:11,350 --> 00:26:08,400
happened to him

653
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:11,360
in inside the spaceships are basically

654
00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:14,960
recycled bits of his pioneers of space

655
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:16,880
science fiction novel from a few years

656
00:26:19,430 --> 00:26:18,480
before

657
00:26:22,230 --> 00:26:19,440
but

658
00:26:25,990 --> 00:26:22,240
um he maintains his popularity despite

659
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:26,000
his photos being um outed as hoaxes and

660
00:26:29,830 --> 00:26:27,679
things like that

661
00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:29,840
he

662
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:36,320
is in his contact e works and in his

663
00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:39,440
talks he puts in a lot of a lot of

664
00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:41,600
material about the ways humanity needs

665
00:26:46,149 --> 00:26:43,600
to improve our

666
00:26:47,830 --> 00:26:46,159
economic systems need to be more fair we

667
00:26:50,070 --> 00:26:47,840
need to live in harmony with each other

668
00:26:51,269 --> 00:26:50,080
war should not be a thing

669
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:51,279
um

670
00:26:55,669 --> 00:26:53,760
that sort of

671
00:26:58,630 --> 00:26:55,679
you know peace and sort of peace and

672
00:27:01,430 --> 00:26:58,640
love thing gets him noticed by people uh

673
00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:01,440
because it sounds vaguely like communism

674
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:04,320
at the time um his fbi file makes it

675
00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:05,440
clear that

676
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:07,200
a lot of people in flying saucer clubs

677
00:27:12,149 --> 00:27:10,080
around the country that heard his talks

678
00:27:14,789 --> 00:27:12,159
contacted the fbi wondering if he might

679
00:27:17,110 --> 00:27:14,799
be sort of a subversive and the fbi

680
00:27:19,269 --> 00:27:17,120
looked into it and mostly found that he

681
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:19,279
probably wasn't a subversive but

682
00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:20,960
he did spend a little too much time

683
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:23,039
claiming to have contacts in the

684
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:25,200
government that he probably didn't have

685
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:27,440
and so they kept an eye on him

686
00:27:31,510 --> 00:27:29,520
for those reasons

687
00:27:34,870 --> 00:27:31,520
he he traveled the world

688
00:27:36,389 --> 00:27:34,880
lecturing and promoting his books

689
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:36,399
transitioned from

690
00:27:42,070 --> 00:27:39,360
just ufo stuff to more philosophical

691
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:42,080
stuff by the late 50s early 60s has a

692
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:42,960
book

693
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:46,799
philosophy where he sets out the science

694
00:27:51,510 --> 00:27:49,360
of life that all the aliens kind of

695
00:27:52,950 --> 00:27:51,520
adhere to and

696
00:27:55,750 --> 00:27:52,960
people

697
00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:55,760
took classes and formed study groups all

698
00:28:01,350 --> 00:27:58,240
over the world and some of those

699
00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:01,360
lasted a long time the the japanese

700
00:28:06,470 --> 00:28:04,240
contactees i mentioned earlier

701
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:06,480
i found those stories in the english

702
00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:09,520
edition of the george adamski get

703
00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:12,880
acquainted organization newsletter

704
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:15,840
from the mid-1980s and that was being

705
00:28:21,909 --> 00:28:19,440
published up until the 90s in japan so

706
00:28:24,870 --> 00:28:21,919
he he sets out his significance is he he

707
00:28:27,510 --> 00:28:24,880
creates this pattern that later ufos are

708
00:28:29,029 --> 00:28:27,520
going to later ufo contactees are going

709
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:29,039
to follow of

710
00:28:33,990 --> 00:28:31,440
humans from other planets who are

711
00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:34,000
concerned about our development and are

712
00:28:37,350 --> 00:28:35,600
offering us a way forward they're not

713
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:37,360
going to do it for us it's sort of a

714
00:28:41,350 --> 00:28:39,200
star trek-y prime directive kind of

715
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:41,360
thing they can't get involved they're

716
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:42,640
not going to land on the white house

717
00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:45,840
lawn so don't even ask you know there

718
00:28:50,389 --> 00:28:48,240
but it sets out these patterns and like

719
00:28:53,269 --> 00:28:50,399
i said there's there's still believers

720
00:28:55,029 --> 00:28:53,279
today in um in that the george adamski

721
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:55,039
foundation is

722
00:28:59,269 --> 00:28:57,840
deeply committed to promoting the truth

723
00:29:02,149 --> 00:28:59,279
and debunking

724
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:02,159
the debunkers and selling copies of his

725
00:29:04,549 --> 00:29:03,120
books

726
00:29:06,630 --> 00:29:04,559
and

727
00:29:08,389 --> 00:29:06,640
one thing just an aside you mentioned my

728
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:08,399
my contact ebook

729
00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:10,080
hardest part of the book was getting

730
00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:12,240
photo permissions from the adamski

731
00:29:17,110 --> 00:29:14,960
foundation um i had to be very clear

732
00:29:20,630 --> 00:29:17,120
that no i'm not debunking him i'm not

733
00:29:23,669 --> 00:29:20,640
ridiculing him i'm i'm not being snarky

734
00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:23,679
this is a sort of historical examination

735
00:29:28,549 --> 00:29:26,720
of this phenomenon and even then the the

736
00:29:30,950 --> 00:29:28,559
pictures all had to have

737
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:30,960
sort of this caption across them that

738
00:29:35,990 --> 00:29:33,760
they put in with their website address

739
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:36,000
and everything which really kind of

740
00:29:40,630 --> 00:29:37,919
irked me it's like i'll put that in the

741
00:29:43,029 --> 00:29:40,640
caption settle down just

742
00:29:45,269 --> 00:29:43,039
give me a clean picture but um they're

743
00:29:47,669 --> 00:29:45,279
all about branding man come on they they

744
00:29:49,510 --> 00:29:47,679
are and i'm i'm very happy they they

745
00:29:52,549 --> 00:29:49,520
were uh they were generous and

746
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:52,559
cooperative but uh

747
00:29:58,389 --> 00:29:56,000
yeah very tenaciously clinging on to uh

748
00:30:01,990 --> 00:29:58,399
to adamski's ideas despite

749
00:30:03,590 --> 00:30:02,000
you know the rest of of ufo world having

750
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:03,600
having moved on

751
00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:05,600
it's so interesting and you brought up

752
00:30:13,110 --> 00:30:08,960
one aspect that kind of reminded me of

753
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:13,120
uh l ron hubbard you have this idea of a

754
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:15,600
writer starting out with sort of science

755
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:16,559
fiction

756
00:30:20,789 --> 00:30:19,520
writing these pulp novels and everything

757
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:20,799
and then

758
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:23,760
gradually it almost becomes

759
00:30:41,029 --> 00:30:24,720
a

760
00:30:42,870 --> 00:30:41,039
kind of

761
00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:42,880
work off of each other in terms of what

762
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:45,120
they do yeah and i would be fascinated

763
00:30:50,630 --> 00:30:48,640
to know if adamski and hubbard had

764
00:30:54,230 --> 00:30:50,640
any contact because they're doing their

765
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:54,240
thing right at the same time i mean

766
00:30:58,149 --> 00:30:56,640
the the chronological overlap is

767
00:30:59,590 --> 00:30:58,159
significant and

768
00:31:01,750 --> 00:30:59,600
the argument i've always made about

769
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:01,760
about contactees is

770
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:04,480
um especially adamski more so than all

771
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:06,960
the others is that the social messages

772
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:08,799
the political messages the cultural

773
00:31:12,549 --> 00:31:09,760
messages

774
00:31:13,830 --> 00:31:12,559
those things are clear in his writing

775
00:31:15,669 --> 00:31:13,840
before

776
00:31:19,029 --> 00:31:15,679
ufos come on the scene

777
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:19,039
in the 1930s he's writing essays um in

778
00:31:23,190 --> 00:31:21,120
in the lead up to world war ii sort of

779
00:31:25,350 --> 00:31:23,200
condemning the coming violence and

780
00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:25,360
condemning this warfare he's condemning

781
00:31:29,509 --> 00:31:28,480
economic inequality the basic messages

782
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:29,519
that

783
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:32,000
the aliens have for us are messages he's

784
00:31:36,549 --> 00:31:33,360
been talking about

785
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:36,559
already and my my sort of

786
00:31:43,669 --> 00:31:40,880
position on on this is that

787
00:31:46,389 --> 00:31:43,679
adamski saw the ufo thing

788
00:31:48,950 --> 00:31:46,399
as a means for promoting

789
00:31:51,669 --> 00:31:48,960
his political and social and cultural

790
00:31:54,549 --> 00:31:51,679
messages in a way that

791
00:31:57,269 --> 00:31:54,559
would appeal to the masses or at least

792
00:31:59,029 --> 00:31:57,279
more of the masses than his royal order

793
00:32:00,630 --> 00:31:59,039
of tibet had

794
00:32:02,789 --> 00:32:00,640
and also

795
00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:02,799
sort of fly under the radar is not being

796
00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:04,799
politically subversive because it's just

797
00:32:10,230 --> 00:32:07,360
goofy flying saucer stuff right a lot of

798
00:32:11,990 --> 00:32:10,240
the a lot of the the fbi documentation

799
00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:12,000
sort of bears that out there they're

800
00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:14,159
concerned about fraud they're concerned

801
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:16,240
about him misrepresenting

802
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:18,799
himself as a you know adviser to the

803
00:32:22,549 --> 00:32:21,039
government on the alien question and and

804
00:32:24,149 --> 00:32:22,559
things like that they're concerned about

805
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:24,159
sort of the things they can actually

806
00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:26,159
prosecute they're not like well this

807
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:28,880
guy's talking about peace you know

808
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:31,120
lock him up um which is sometimes some

809
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:32,960
authors give that impression that you

810
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:35,120
know they were you know concerned about

811
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:36,240
his message

812
00:32:42,549 --> 00:32:39,600
piece nick but

813
00:32:45,029 --> 00:32:42,559
flying saucer guy you know not a huge

814
00:32:48,389 --> 00:32:45,039
deal later writers don't have that

815
00:32:50,950 --> 00:32:48,399
pre-saucer pedigree that adamski does so

816
00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:50,960
but he sets this pattern that makes it

817
00:32:56,630 --> 00:32:54,000
acceptable to merge these ideas with

818
00:32:58,710 --> 00:32:56,640
flying saucerdom if that makes sense

819
00:33:01,509 --> 00:32:58,720
absolutely flying saucer them i love

820
00:33:04,470 --> 00:33:01,519
that term um well in you know it's so

821
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:04,480
innocent in so many ways too erin i i

822
00:33:09,110 --> 00:33:06,720
think when it comes to uh to someone

823
00:33:11,990 --> 00:33:09,120
like him because then later

824
00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:12,000
in in you know decades later you start

825
00:33:17,110 --> 00:33:13,600
having these cults

826
00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:17,120
pop up where these sort of messages and

827
00:33:20,549 --> 00:33:17,919
uh

828
00:33:24,070 --> 00:33:20,559
contactees as it were became

829
00:33:27,110 --> 00:33:24,080
not only dangerous but uh deadly many

830
00:33:29,430 --> 00:33:27,120
times as well so i i i love knowing the

831
00:33:31,350 --> 00:33:29,440
fact that with the damski no matter what

832
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:31,360
you think about his philosophy or if any

833
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:34,480
of this is real um his messages were

834
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:38,000
pretty clear maybe this was his way of

835
00:33:43,669 --> 00:33:40,799
funneling it out to the public and hey

836
00:33:46,310 --> 00:33:43,679
there you go i i think i think you know

837
00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:46,320
that was a perfect person to start with

838
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:49,600
yeah um in terms of all of that so yeah

839
00:33:54,070 --> 00:33:51,360
um unless you have anything else you'd

840
00:33:55,590 --> 00:33:54,080
like to add about adamski

841
00:33:57,509 --> 00:33:55,600
yeah

842
00:33:59,750 --> 00:33:57,519
we can move on to uh to the second one

843
00:34:02,230 --> 00:33:59,760
another guy named george um a lot of

844
00:34:04,630 --> 00:34:02,240
georges during this uh this era in the

845
00:34:10,069 --> 00:34:04,640
50s and 60s they're all named george in

846
00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:11,990
what's up guys ryan sprague here and i'm

847
00:34:16,310 --> 00:34:13,839
just dropping in to remind you about our

848
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:16,320
patreon campaign somewhere in the skies

849
00:34:20,149 --> 00:34:18,399
is always free to consume but it's not

850
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:20,159
free to create so if you want to help

851
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:23,040
the show on a monthly basis we have tons

852
00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:25,520
of rewards for you in return including

853
00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:28,159
shout outs on the show and website bonus

854
00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:31,280
content and episodes and free merch

855
00:34:35,829 --> 00:34:33,520
wanna be my guest or pick a topic for

856
00:34:37,270 --> 00:34:35,839
the show you can do that too

857
00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:37,280
so if you'd like to learn more and to

858
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:40,800
help support the show visit patreon.com

859
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:43,599
summerskies thank you and keep looking

860
00:34:46,950 --> 00:34:44,010
up

861
00:34:49,829 --> 00:34:46,960
[Music]

862
00:34:53,109 --> 00:34:49,839
um so you you sort of get these these

863
00:34:55,430 --> 00:34:53,119
names but george van tassel um is

864
00:34:58,390 --> 00:34:55,440
another contactee who who in many ways

865
00:35:01,910 --> 00:34:58,400
follows the adamski pattern of having

866
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:01,920
messages from outer space that uh that

867
00:35:06,550 --> 00:35:04,880
that he is he is conveying but he's a

868
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:06,560
little bit different uh he claims that

869
00:35:11,829 --> 00:35:09,359
1952 same year's adamski

870
00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:11,839
um earlier than damski

871
00:35:16,390 --> 00:35:13,760
which is another sort of contact e thing

872
00:35:19,270 --> 00:35:16,400
so adam says i had my contact in 19

873
00:35:21,750 --> 00:35:19,280
november 1952. um

874
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:21,760
every contactee who comes after

875
00:35:26,950 --> 00:35:24,240
um says well i didn't say anything about

876
00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:26,960
it before but mine happened in the

877
00:35:34,069 --> 00:35:32,320
summer of 1952. or in 1951 or in 1923

878
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:34,079
they're always sort of sort of saying

879
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:35,920
interesting i didn't say anything but

880
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:38,560
really i was the first one oh that's you

881
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,640
know you've got the whole ufo wave in

882
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:42,640
washington the same year that's yeah

883
00:35:46,150 --> 00:35:44,880
that's kind of weird i i'm sure there's

884
00:35:48,069 --> 00:35:46,160
something too

885
00:35:49,750 --> 00:35:48,079
yeah but i i think that there might be

886
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:49,760
something to it besides i mean i think

887
00:35:52,710 --> 00:35:51,359
it's predominantly

888
00:35:53,829 --> 00:35:52,720
wanting to establish some kind of

889
00:35:56,790 --> 00:35:53,839
precedence

890
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:56,800
right i didn't want to talk about it but

891
00:35:59,829 --> 00:35:58,800
it happened to me too and a month before

892
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:59,839
that guy

893
00:36:05,910 --> 00:36:00,640
so

894
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:05,920
receives messages from numerous beings

895
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:07,760
and these messages are channeled

896
00:36:13,030 --> 00:36:10,720
messages messages rather than um

897
00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:13,040
physical messages and he does travel in

898
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:15,280
spaceships but he does so

899
00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:18,240
more astrally more um

900
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:21,760
uh in a non-physical way and the key

901
00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:23,920
figure he's receiving messages from is a

902
00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:27,680
figure called ashtar and that

903
00:36:31,829 --> 00:36:29,520
one of the things that that is

904
00:36:34,470 --> 00:36:31,839
significant about uh about george van

905
00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:34,480
tassel but ashtar's message was that

906
00:36:39,109 --> 00:36:36,400
that that he

907
00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:39,119
and a number of other beings that shared

908
00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:40,480
names with

909
00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:43,119
um the some some of whom shared names

910
00:36:49,589 --> 00:36:46,960
with figures uh like ascended masters in

911
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:49,599
theosophical and esoteric belief systems

912
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:52,079
they were all commanding ships um that

913
00:36:57,190 --> 00:36:54,480
there was a galactic organization

914
00:36:58,950 --> 00:36:57,200
that was defending earth against a

915
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:58,960
coming cataclysm

916
00:37:05,589 --> 00:36:59,920
if you

917
00:37:07,430 --> 00:37:05,599
the ashtar movement

918
00:37:10,069 --> 00:37:07,440
you would be saved there were there were

919
00:37:12,710 --> 00:37:10,079
ships in place in orbit around the

920
00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:12,720
planet to to remove

921
00:37:18,150 --> 00:37:15,440
the worthy before any disaster hit it's

922
00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:18,160
the flying saucer rapture right

923
00:37:25,430 --> 00:37:20,320
so

924
00:37:27,349 --> 00:37:25,440
of short booklets about this um he

925
00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:27,359
claims to have gotten information from

926
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:30,640
the aliens about designing a um a a

927
00:37:34,470 --> 00:37:33,119
device a building um

928
00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:34,480
sort of

929
00:37:41,910 --> 00:37:40,400
called the integratron that will provide

930
00:37:44,550 --> 00:37:41,920
strength and enlightenment and

931
00:37:48,069 --> 00:37:44,560
rejuvenation and he actually builds it

932
00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:48,079
he owns an airfield out in california

933
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:50,079
near a place called giant rock where

934
00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:53,440
there's a giant rock and he stages um

935
00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:54,560
ufo

936
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:56,880
um flying saucer conventions there where

937
00:38:01,270 --> 00:37:58,560
every major

938
00:38:03,829 --> 00:38:01,280
especially contact e figure of the time

939
00:38:06,390 --> 00:38:03,839
spoke throughout the 1950s and 1960s it

940
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:06,400
was a major sort of flying saucer

941
00:38:12,470 --> 00:38:10,160
cultural happening every year so

942
00:38:14,230 --> 00:38:12,480
van tassel's significance is

943
00:38:16,230 --> 00:38:14,240
not just the integratron which still

944
00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:16,240
stands today i think you can visit it

945
00:38:22,069 --> 00:38:18,560
not just giant rock which was sort of

946
00:38:23,030 --> 00:38:22,079
the dawn of ufo conventions in a lot of

947
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:23,040
ways

948
00:38:28,150 --> 00:38:24,960
but i think the biggest piece of

949
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:28,160
significance from van tassel and his

950
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:29,920
ashtar contacts

951
00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:32,640
is that because this was a a channeled

952
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:34,240
message

953
00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:36,640
anybody can kind of claim to be

954
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:39,520
receiving messages from ashtar and i

955
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:41,520
mean what proof is anybody gonna ask for

956
00:38:44,790 --> 00:38:43,040
you're not gonna

957
00:38:46,710 --> 00:38:44,800
say well where's your photos well here's

958
00:38:48,069 --> 00:38:46,720
a photo of me sitting there in a chair

959
00:38:50,630 --> 00:38:48,079
in a trance

960
00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:50,640
telling you what ashtar said

961
00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:52,720
you know you you don't there's no way to

962
00:38:56,790 --> 00:38:54,560
prove or really

963
00:39:00,710 --> 00:38:56,800
disprove this so

964
00:39:03,829 --> 00:39:00,720
even in the later 1950s you've got other

965
00:39:06,310 --> 00:39:03,839
authors coming forward saying i received

966
00:39:08,069 --> 00:39:06,320
revelations from ashtar as well

967
00:39:10,630 --> 00:39:08,079
and sometimes they would match up with

968
00:39:12,630 --> 00:39:10,640
what van tassel had written sometimes

969
00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:12,640
they wouldn't

970
00:39:16,710 --> 00:39:14,640
sometimes there were conflicts and in

971
00:39:19,349 --> 00:39:16,720
the 50s there was a big split in the

972
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:19,359
ashtar community over um not just the

973
00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:22,320
messages but over um up people being

974
00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:24,160
upset that others were

975
00:39:28,390 --> 00:39:26,880
um inappropriately commercializing and

976
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:28,400
profiting from

977
00:39:32,870 --> 00:39:30,880
the ashtar channelings

978
00:39:36,310 --> 00:39:32,880
in and it would it would continue into

979
00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:36,320
the 1970s in the 1980s there was a woman

980
00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:38,320
who called herself tuella

981
00:39:45,430 --> 00:39:42,400
which channeled a lot of ashtar stuff

982
00:39:48,230 --> 00:39:45,440
in the 1980s books like project world

983
00:39:50,230 --> 00:39:48,240
evacuation and ashtar attribute where

984
00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:50,240
everybody she channels messages from

985
00:39:55,030 --> 00:39:52,560
like 15 different other aliens talking

986
00:39:58,390 --> 00:39:55,040
about how awesome ashtar is it's kind of

987
00:39:59,190 --> 00:39:58,400
weird ashtar fan fiction i love that

988
00:40:03,829 --> 00:39:59,200
it's

989
00:40:06,710 --> 00:40:03,839
these this fleet is still surrounding

990
00:40:09,030 --> 00:40:06,720
our planet as guardians to us and

991
00:40:10,630 --> 00:40:09,040
when tooele passes away other people

992
00:40:13,430 --> 00:40:10,640
take up the torch if you go on the

993
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:13,440
internet right now you will find people

994
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:16,240
channeling ashtar channeling hatan

995
00:40:20,950 --> 00:40:18,560
channeling kitumi channeling all these

996
00:40:23,910 --> 00:40:20,960
beings that sort of first appeared back

997
00:40:25,910 --> 00:40:23,920
in the 1950s when george fent hassell

998
00:40:29,190 --> 00:40:25,920
first started this so

999
00:40:31,910 --> 00:40:29,200
again some some deep significance not

1000
00:40:35,349 --> 00:40:31,920
necessarily the goofiest weirdest uh

1001
00:40:37,589 --> 00:40:35,359
flying saucer story out there but

1002
00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:37,599
long lasting significance just like

1003
00:40:42,550 --> 00:40:40,560
adamski still believers still people

1004
00:40:46,470 --> 00:40:42,560
following these things and what is

1005
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:46,480
amazing is that the ashtar stuff in

1006
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:49,760
present day times crosses over with

1007
00:40:54,309 --> 00:40:53,040
other elements of um

1008
00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:54,319
of of

1009
00:40:58,069 --> 00:40:56,800
paranormal and parapolitical things i've

1010
00:40:59,270 --> 00:40:58,079
got a book coming out at the end of the

1011
00:41:02,710 --> 00:40:59,280
year

1012
00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:02,720
i think about um

1013
00:41:06,309 --> 00:41:04,720
what's it about about what i call

1014
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:06,319
triumphalist conspiracy theories

1015
00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:08,160
conspiracy theories with happy endings

1016
00:41:11,990 --> 00:41:10,319
where you're not getting hot the good

1017
00:41:13,589 --> 00:41:12,000
people in america are not going to get

1018
00:41:16,630 --> 00:41:13,599
hauled off to the fema camp they're

1019
00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:16,640
going to be the ones who win so i look

1020
00:41:20,790 --> 00:41:18,480
at elements of the ufo disclosure

1021
00:41:22,150 --> 00:41:20,800
movement um particularly the ones that

1022
00:41:24,069 --> 00:41:22,160
promise that as soon as everything

1023
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:24,079
shakes out we're gonna get free energy

1024
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:25,680
technology and nobody will ever be

1025
00:41:31,109 --> 00:41:28,319
hungry again you know that aspect of it

1026
00:41:33,829 --> 00:41:31,119
i looked at um nasara which was sort of

1027
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:33,839
a financial scam um where there's a

1028
00:41:38,550 --> 00:41:35,760
secret law that congress passed back in

1029
00:41:40,630 --> 00:41:38,560
the 90s but um they rigged september

1030
00:41:42,309 --> 00:41:40,640
11th to prevent the law from being

1031
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:42,319
implemented and this law would wipe out

1032
00:41:46,950 --> 00:41:44,880
all consumer debt redo the money supply

1033
00:41:50,870 --> 00:41:46,960
everybody will be rich all the time all

1034
00:41:52,470 --> 00:41:50,880
the bad guys will go to jail and um

1035
00:41:55,990 --> 00:41:52,480
before i knew it was going to be such a

1036
00:41:57,430 --> 00:41:56,000
massive thing i thought q anon would be

1037
00:41:59,670 --> 00:41:57,440
a great sort of

1038
00:42:01,670 --> 00:41:59,680
another example of this which forced me

1039
00:42:02,870 --> 00:42:01,680
to

1040
00:42:06,390 --> 00:42:02,880
oh no

1041
00:42:08,069 --> 00:42:06,400
my brain for a year with that but what's

1042
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:08,079
weird is

1043
00:42:13,430 --> 00:42:11,040
you've got people channeling ashtar

1044
00:42:14,790 --> 00:42:13,440
talking about

1045
00:42:17,589 --> 00:42:14,800
nasara

1046
00:42:19,990 --> 00:42:17,599
talking about humanon talking about

1047
00:42:22,550 --> 00:42:20,000
these things uh there was a ufo a

1048
00:42:24,870 --> 00:42:22,560
massive ufo disclosure

1049
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:24,880
some figure popular figures in the ufo

1050
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:27,280
disclosure movement sort of dabbling

1051
00:42:33,829 --> 00:42:30,240
their toe in the q anon waters saying

1052
00:42:37,829 --> 00:42:33,839
well these q drops um are you know uh

1053
00:42:39,829 --> 00:42:37,839
you i isbn numbers for these ufo books

1054
00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:39,839
if you look at them correctly

1055
00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:41,280
um

1056
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:44,160
very strange stuff some of the the big

1057
00:42:47,589 --> 00:42:46,079
disclosure names were smart enough to

1058
00:42:49,349 --> 00:42:47,599
stay

1059
00:42:53,589 --> 00:42:49,359
way away from that

1060
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:53,599
some weren't um but you know ashtar

1061
00:42:59,349 --> 00:42:56,880
ashtar shows up endorsing cubanon

1062
00:43:00,790 --> 00:42:59,359
depending on which ashtar channel or you

1063
00:43:03,270 --> 00:43:00,800
believe so

1064
00:43:05,190 --> 00:43:03,280
these things you know

1065
00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:05,200
are get sort of pigeonholed as as sort

1066
00:43:11,190 --> 00:43:08,880
of early cold war 1950s 1960s things

1067
00:43:13,030 --> 00:43:11,200
but elements of them

1068
00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:13,040
persist

1069
00:43:18,309 --> 00:43:15,760
very interesting and i do want to talk

1070
00:43:20,390 --> 00:43:18,319
about that rep repetitive nature of

1071
00:43:21,829 --> 00:43:20,400
these things with aaron in a little bit

1072
00:43:24,230 --> 00:43:21,839
um but

1073
00:43:26,230 --> 00:43:24,240
that's so fast i'm imagining ashtar like

1074
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:26,240
in his mom's basement like on the

1075
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:27,440
computer

1076
00:43:32,230 --> 00:43:30,319
being like oh yep any day now it's gonna

1077
00:43:33,109 --> 00:43:32,240
happen it's gonna happen um

1078
00:43:35,589 --> 00:43:33,119
well

1079
00:43:37,750 --> 00:43:35,599
one more question for you if i'm

1080
00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:37,760
maybe i'm remembering this wrong was

1081
00:43:42,390 --> 00:43:41,440
ashtar the the one from the famous like

1082
00:43:44,630 --> 00:43:42,400
news

1083
00:43:47,430 --> 00:43:44,640
interruption broadcast do you remember

1084
00:43:50,390 --> 00:43:47,440
that yeah that was weird man i remember

1085
00:43:52,950 --> 00:43:50,400
coming across that ashtar breaks into to

1086
00:43:56,110 --> 00:43:52,960
i can't remember where it was but um

1087
00:44:02,620 --> 00:43:56,120
breaks into a news broadcast

1088
00:44:25,990 --> 00:44:22,350
[Music]

1089
00:44:30,309 --> 00:44:28,150
yeah it luckily somebody recorded it and

1090
00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:30,319
it's been digitized and and it's out

1091
00:44:35,349 --> 00:44:33,280
there but just just fascinating stuff

1092
00:44:36,950 --> 00:44:35,359
there's a band called ashtar command

1093
00:44:39,910 --> 00:44:36,960
which is sort of the the

1094
00:44:42,630 --> 00:44:39,920
name of the fleet uh so so ashtar has

1095
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:42,640
penetrated some elements of

1096
00:44:46,470 --> 00:44:45,440
the fringes of pop culture in a way that

1097
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:46,480
um

1098
00:44:51,670 --> 00:44:49,280
adamski didn't but

1099
00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:51,680
the adamski flying saucer is such a sort

1100
00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:54,560
of cultural icon um

1101
00:44:59,910 --> 00:44:56,880
the uh sort of embarrassing myself here

1102
00:45:02,069 --> 00:44:59,920
but i'm a old-school transformers fan

1103
00:45:03,829 --> 00:45:02,079
and there's a transformer from the 80s

1104
00:45:06,950 --> 00:45:03,839
that was a little adamski style

1105
00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:06,960
spaceship and in japan the name they

1106
00:45:12,309 --> 00:45:09,280
gave it was adam's that was that

1107
00:45:13,270 --> 00:45:12,319
character's name so sort of an adamski

1108
00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:13,280
reference

1109
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:15,920
there as well so these things these

1110
00:45:19,750 --> 00:45:17,520
things persist

1111
00:45:22,309 --> 00:45:19,760
uh longer than we think they do

1112
00:45:23,910 --> 00:45:22,319
yeah i i always go back to guardians of

1113
00:45:26,069 --> 00:45:23,920
the galaxy like

1114
00:45:28,630 --> 00:45:26,079
clearly inspired by something like a

1115
00:45:30,550 --> 00:45:28,640
space command that would sort of govern

1116
00:45:33,430 --> 00:45:30,560
or police the entire

1117
00:45:36,069 --> 00:45:33,440
universe as it were which is again all

1118
00:45:38,550 --> 00:45:36,079
of these contactees have had no matter

1119
00:45:41,510 --> 00:45:38,560
what their message was or how they faded

1120
00:45:43,589 --> 00:45:41,520
into obscurity they all have a lasting

1121
00:45:46,710 --> 00:45:43,599
place i think in pop culture in many

1122
00:45:49,510 --> 00:45:46,720
different ways they do um same thing

1123
00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:49,520
with uh with i think the um the green

1124
00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:52,240
lantern corps uh so yeah that same sort

1125
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:55,119
of a space police force guard guardians

1126
00:45:58,870 --> 00:45:56,880
of you know answering to the guardians

1127
00:46:01,270 --> 00:45:58,880
those little blue guys um

1128
00:46:03,510 --> 00:46:01,280
and and yeah there's there's these

1129
00:46:05,670 --> 00:46:03,520
elements seeped into

1130
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:05,680
seeped into pop culture pop culture fed

1131
00:46:10,550 --> 00:46:08,240
into the contact e movement i don't

1132
00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:10,560
think i i think it we absolutely need to

1133
00:46:16,790 --> 00:46:14,160
mention um the day the earth stood still

1134
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:16,800
as a sort of you know a benevolent

1135
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:19,440
humanoid alien comes and has a message

1136
00:46:24,630 --> 00:46:22,800
of peace for mankind um that usually

1137
00:46:26,710 --> 00:46:24,640
gets trotted out as well this is where

1138
00:46:30,150 --> 00:46:26,720
the contactees got all this stuff from

1139
00:46:32,950 --> 00:46:30,160
the timelines don't work for that um but

1140
00:46:34,870 --> 00:46:32,960
uh it's definitely something that might

1141
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:34,880
have been influenced by contact d

1142
00:46:39,349 --> 00:46:36,880
culture and

1143
00:46:41,750 --> 00:46:40,470
it's

1144
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:41,760
it was a dangerous time it was a

1145
00:46:44,710 --> 00:46:43,200
frightening time people were worried

1146
00:46:47,349 --> 00:46:44,720
about nuclear war people were seeing

1147
00:46:49,270 --> 00:46:47,359
ufos you didn't have to be

1148
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:49,280
you know completely immersed in

1149
00:46:51,990 --> 00:46:50,720
contact-d

1150
00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:52,000
teachings

1151
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:54,160
to come up with the idea of hey what if

1152
00:46:59,349 --> 00:46:56,400
an alien showed up and you know

1153
00:47:00,550 --> 00:46:59,359
stopped nuclear war i mean that

1154
00:47:01,670 --> 00:47:00,560
in many ways

1155
00:47:04,230 --> 00:47:01,680
i would have been shocked if there

1156
00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:04,240
hadn't been a movie like that you know

1157
00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:07,119
regardless of of the contacty influence

1158
00:47:11,270 --> 00:47:08,640
or not

1159
00:47:13,430 --> 00:47:11,280
very interesting yeah i have echoes of

1160
00:47:16,390 --> 00:47:13,440
uh reagan many years later with his

1161
00:47:19,030 --> 00:47:16,400
famous speech you know if an alien force

1162
00:47:22,150 --> 00:47:19,040
came bring us all together hopefully

1163
00:47:23,990 --> 00:47:22,160
hopefully but yeah yeah yeah absolutely

1164
00:47:25,510 --> 00:47:24,000
well all right well we're on our third

1165
00:47:27,510 --> 00:47:25,520
one already man we're reaching through

1166
00:47:29,510 --> 00:47:27,520
these i love it what do you got for me

1167
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:29,520
this is this is this is the one that you

1168
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:30,960
know listeners you might have heard of

1169
00:47:33,670 --> 00:47:32,160
adamski you might have heard of george

1170
00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:33,680
van tassel you might have heard of

1171
00:47:39,510 --> 00:47:35,920
ashtar you can almost guarantee you've

1172
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:39,520
not heard of reinhold schmidt

1173
00:47:43,109 --> 00:47:41,920
reinhold schmidt um

1174
00:47:44,870 --> 00:47:43,119
was a

1175
00:47:47,670 --> 00:47:44,880
a grain buyer worked in worked in

1176
00:47:52,230 --> 00:47:47,680
agribusiness out in nebraska

1177
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:52,240
and in 1957 november of 1957

1178
00:47:56,390 --> 00:47:54,720
he had or claimed to have an encounter

1179
00:47:59,270 --> 00:47:56,400
and this is this is first week in

1180
00:48:01,510 --> 00:47:59,280
november of 57 so this is right in the

1181
00:48:03,190 --> 00:48:01,520
middle of the huge wave of sightings

1182
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:03,200
that were sort of centered around the

1183
00:48:07,030 --> 00:48:05,280
levelland texas

1184
00:48:07,829 --> 00:48:07,040
flap right

1185
00:48:11,030 --> 00:48:07,839
so

1186
00:48:12,470 --> 00:48:11,040
reinhold schmidt is driving along

1187
00:48:15,510 --> 00:48:12,480
in nebraska

1188
00:48:18,309 --> 00:48:15,520
and he comes across a

1189
00:48:20,390 --> 00:48:18,319
landed flying saucer and i'm sort of

1190
00:48:22,470 --> 00:48:20,400
compressing the story a little bit

1191
00:48:24,710 --> 00:48:22,480
but he

1192
00:48:26,549 --> 00:48:24,720
meets the flying saucer people they're a

1193
00:48:28,710 --> 00:48:26,559
group of men and women in

1194
00:48:30,390 --> 00:48:28,720
jumpsuits and things like that

1195
00:48:35,349 --> 00:48:30,400
they all speak english

1196
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:35,359
accent which is very strange

1197
00:48:45,990 --> 00:48:36,800
he

1198
00:48:48,069 --> 00:48:46,000
facility for evaluation um

1199
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:48,079
and a lot of times that's you know sort

1200
00:48:51,670 --> 00:48:50,160
of oh my gosh they took this seriously

1201
00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:51,680
and we're trying to shut him up they let

1202
00:48:55,829 --> 00:48:53,520
him leave on his he was able to check

1203
00:48:58,950 --> 00:48:55,839
himself out so it wasn't like a sort of

1204
00:48:59,910 --> 00:48:58,960
criminal psychiatric hold sort of thing

1205
00:49:01,109 --> 00:48:59,920
um

1206
00:49:03,349 --> 00:49:01,119
but

1207
00:49:05,829 --> 00:49:03,359
he keeps telling the story writes a

1208
00:49:07,430 --> 00:49:05,839
pamphlet about it goes on some some

1209
00:49:10,710 --> 00:49:07,440
lecture tours

1210
00:49:11,910 --> 00:49:10,720
and then what is fascinating to me about

1211
00:49:16,309 --> 00:49:11,920
this

1212
00:49:17,349 --> 00:49:16,319
is is he he hooks up with um with some

1213
00:49:19,910 --> 00:49:17,359
other

1214
00:49:21,510 --> 00:49:19,920
contactees um

1215
00:49:23,589 --> 00:49:21,520
daniel frye

1216
00:49:25,030 --> 00:49:23,599
is uh is one of them there are some

1217
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:25,040
others he hooks up with on these lecture

1218
00:49:29,349 --> 00:49:26,559
tours there's some great newspaper

1219
00:49:30,710 --> 00:49:29,359
articles from the late 50s and early 60s

1220
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:30,720
where

1221
00:49:35,190 --> 00:49:32,160
my favorite one

1222
00:49:36,790 --> 00:49:35,200
is he uh he's going to lecture at a high

1223
00:49:38,390 --> 00:49:36,800
school for like a high school assembly

1224
00:49:41,349 --> 00:49:38,400
which is

1225
00:49:43,750 --> 00:49:41,359
educationally negligent on the party

1226
00:49:45,829 --> 00:49:43,760
oh man i would have killed to see that

1227
00:49:48,309 --> 00:49:45,839
in my gymnasium are you kidding me all

1228
00:49:50,309 --> 00:49:48,319
we got was don't do drugs don't drink

1229
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:50,319
and drive and you know be positive

1230
00:49:53,990 --> 00:49:52,480
though those were like the assemblies we

1231
00:49:56,230 --> 00:49:54,000
had it's

1232
00:49:59,109 --> 00:49:56,240
joined the navy you know it was yeah

1233
00:50:01,109 --> 00:49:59,119
another big one not join the galactic

1234
00:50:03,430 --> 00:50:01,119
federation right that would have been

1235
00:50:06,309 --> 00:50:03,440
very cool so he's telling about how he's

1236
00:50:08,950 --> 00:50:06,319
been on on subsequent trips with the uh

1237
00:50:11,670 --> 00:50:08,960
with the space people and um they took

1238
00:50:13,990 --> 00:50:11,680
him to egypt and he was able to read

1239
00:50:15,990 --> 00:50:14,000
some ancient scrolls in one of the

1240
00:50:17,990 --> 00:50:16,000
pyramids that um

1241
00:50:19,910 --> 00:50:18,000
you know and and the high school this is

1242
00:50:21,910 --> 00:50:19,920
all reported in the paper high school

1243
00:50:23,349 --> 00:50:21,920
student asked well how were you able to

1244
00:50:25,190 --> 00:50:23,359
read it and he was like

1245
00:50:26,790 --> 00:50:25,200
it was in english and the students are

1246
00:50:29,109 --> 00:50:26,800
like but

1247
00:50:30,790 --> 00:50:29,119
why would it be in english and then the

1248
00:50:32,390 --> 00:50:30,800
students just start peppering him with

1249
00:50:34,150 --> 00:50:32,400
these questions and knocking holes in

1250
00:50:35,349 --> 00:50:34,160
his story it's

1251
00:50:38,230 --> 00:50:35,359
it's hilarious

1252
00:50:40,470 --> 00:50:38,240
skeptical high school right it was just

1253
00:50:42,870 --> 00:50:40,480
i mean his stories were so goofy that

1254
00:50:45,349 --> 00:50:42,880
you know the basic astronomy was wrong

1255
00:50:46,549 --> 00:50:45,359
and you know he was getting wrong stuff

1256
00:50:48,069 --> 00:50:46,559
that these students learned in their

1257
00:50:48,790 --> 00:50:48,079
science classes

1258
00:50:50,470 --> 00:50:48,800
so

1259
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:50,480
they called him out on it

1260
00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:53,440
and then he hooks up with a movie

1261
00:50:56,710 --> 00:50:55,680
director who had been interested in in

1262
00:50:59,430 --> 00:50:56,720
um

1263
00:51:02,549 --> 00:50:59,440
ufo stuff a guy named ron ormond

1264
00:51:04,710 --> 00:51:02,559
and ormonde had directed some sort of

1265
00:51:07,589 --> 00:51:04,720
low-budget movies probably the most

1266
00:51:08,710 --> 00:51:07,599
well-known one was the mesa of lost

1267
00:51:11,829 --> 00:51:08,720
women

1268
00:51:14,230 --> 00:51:11,839
but ormonde makes a movie called the

1269
00:51:16,069 --> 00:51:14,240
edge of tomorrow don't try to google it

1270
00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:16,079
all you'll get is the tom cruise movie

1271
00:51:21,589 --> 00:51:19,040
um but it's called edge of tomorrow

1272
00:51:24,870 --> 00:51:21,599
about schmidt's contact experience and

1273
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:24,880
schmidt stars in it as himself

1274
00:51:29,670 --> 00:51:26,960
it's crazy it is

1275
00:51:32,069 --> 00:51:29,680
wild it's like imagine ed wood sort of

1276
00:51:34,230 --> 00:51:32,079
an edward movie but and you're excited

1277
00:51:36,470 --> 00:51:34,240
because oh wow this is going to be a um

1278
00:51:40,630 --> 00:51:36,480
a great uh

1279
00:51:43,030 --> 00:51:40,640
you know contacty movie and it's not

1280
00:51:44,950 --> 00:51:43,040
commercially available i was able to

1281
00:51:46,390 --> 00:51:44,960
watch a copy with the promise i'd never

1282
00:51:47,589 --> 00:51:46,400
share it with anybody else because the

1283
00:51:49,750 --> 00:51:47,599
rights are

1284
00:51:51,990 --> 00:51:49,760
apparently owned by a mining company

1285
00:51:54,950 --> 00:51:52,000
somewhere it's very strange

1286
00:51:57,829 --> 00:51:54,960
but um but the problem is with this

1287
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:57,839
movie is that most of it is just schmidt

1288
00:52:02,470 --> 00:51:59,200
sitting with an interviewer who is

1289
00:52:03,670 --> 00:52:02,480
asking him questions and it's like the

1290
00:52:07,109 --> 00:52:03,680
the worst

1291
00:52:11,109 --> 00:52:07,119
example of telling not showing in a film

1292
00:52:13,750 --> 00:52:11,119
yeah screenwriting 101 yeah it's it's

1293
00:52:16,950 --> 00:52:13,760
i want more on the spaceship set and the

1294
00:52:19,349 --> 00:52:16,960
very very 1961 looking

1295
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:19,359
looking spaceship crew it

1296
00:52:23,750 --> 00:52:21,359
goes out into theaters it

1297
00:52:26,470 --> 00:52:23,760
has a hollywood premiere that is not

1298
00:52:29,430 --> 00:52:26,480
very well attended mood is kind of low

1299
00:52:30,470 --> 00:52:29,440
at the hollywood premiere because um

1300
00:52:32,950 --> 00:52:30,480
during it

1301
00:52:34,870 --> 00:52:32,960
schmidt is actually out on bail having

1302
00:52:38,150 --> 00:52:34,880
been indicted

1303
00:52:40,790 --> 00:52:38,160
for fraud he is an actual

1304
00:52:43,430 --> 00:52:40,800
saucer felon he is a flying saucer felon

1305
00:52:45,829 --> 00:52:43,440
a flying saucer fraudster and uh he had

1306
00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:45,839
a previous criminal record of petty

1307
00:52:49,589 --> 00:52:46,960
theft and

1308
00:52:51,589 --> 00:52:49,599
and ripping people off but

1309
00:52:52,710 --> 00:52:51,599
what he did was he started talking in

1310
00:52:55,750 --> 00:52:52,720
his lectures

1311
00:52:58,230 --> 00:52:55,760
about how the the aliens had shown him

1312
00:53:00,390 --> 00:52:58,240
various places on earth where

1313
00:53:01,990 --> 00:53:00,400
valuable crystals could be mined in

1314
00:53:04,069 --> 00:53:02,000
order to heal

1315
00:53:07,750 --> 00:53:04,079
various diseases

1316
00:53:09,510 --> 00:53:07,760
and he was hitting up mostly

1317
00:53:13,349 --> 00:53:09,520
elderly women

1318
00:53:17,109 --> 00:53:13,359
to invest and buy shares in his mining

1319
00:53:19,030 --> 00:53:17,119
company which did not exist

1320
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:19,040
so after

1321
00:53:23,190 --> 00:53:21,599
you know investing lots of money this

1322
00:53:25,349 --> 00:53:23,200
little old lady

1323
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:25,359
goes to the i think she goes to her bank

1324
00:53:28,390 --> 00:53:26,800
and the bank's like

1325
00:53:29,589 --> 00:53:28,400
we're calling the fbi

1326
00:53:32,309 --> 00:53:29,599
and so

1327
00:53:33,510 --> 00:53:32,319
schmidt is uh is arrested he's put on

1328
00:53:35,109 --> 00:53:33,520
trial

1329
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:35,119
the newspaper accounts that this is in

1330
00:53:38,069 --> 00:53:36,880
the early 60s the newspaper accounts of

1331
00:53:39,670 --> 00:53:38,079
the trial

1332
00:53:41,270 --> 00:53:39,680
are um

1333
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:41,280
are hilarious

1334
00:53:44,549 --> 00:53:42,960
schmidt must have gotten the worst

1335
00:53:47,829 --> 00:53:44,559
lawyer

1336
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:47,839
money could buy because

1337
00:53:52,470 --> 00:53:50,160
as part of their defense

1338
00:53:55,430 --> 00:53:52,480
they showed the jury

1339
00:53:58,549 --> 00:53:55,440
the movie edge of tomorrow

1340
00:54:01,030 --> 00:53:58,559
as part of the defense

1341
00:54:03,750 --> 00:54:01,040
also part of the thing that's at first

1342
00:54:04,790 --> 00:54:03,760
it's insane and also as part of the

1343
00:54:06,309 --> 00:54:04,800
defense

1344
00:54:07,990 --> 00:54:06,319
the um

1345
00:54:10,150 --> 00:54:08,000
the defense attorney

1346
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:10,160
cross-examines the little old lady who

1347
00:54:14,470 --> 00:54:12,400
is the victim of all the or alleged

1348
00:54:17,190 --> 00:54:14,480
victim at the time alleged victim of all

1349
00:54:18,630 --> 00:54:17,200
this and brings her to tears in front of

1350
00:54:19,349 --> 00:54:18,640
the jury

1351
00:54:20,150 --> 00:54:19,359
oh

1352
00:54:22,390 --> 00:54:20,160
just

1353
00:54:25,589 --> 00:54:22,400
what kind of defense it turns like okay

1354
00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:25,599
this very very sympathetic person

1355
00:54:29,510 --> 00:54:26,880
we're going to look like absolute

1356
00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:32,230
between that and my flying saucer movie

1357
00:54:36,390 --> 00:54:34,800
i think we've got this cape zona

1358
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:36,400
it's it's like

1359
00:54:40,069 --> 00:54:37,680
actually it's like what i wish law and

1360
00:54:42,069 --> 00:54:40,079
order would be yeah they're using 24 do

1361
00:54:45,109 --> 00:54:42,079
something like this with law and order

1362
00:54:47,670 --> 00:54:45,119
this this would be outstanding but um

1363
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:47,680
get the svu folks involved on a

1364
00:54:51,270 --> 00:54:49,440
alien probing case

1365
00:54:53,270 --> 00:54:51,280
dick wolf if you're listening if you're

1366
00:54:55,349 --> 00:54:53,280
listening we've got something for you we

1367
00:54:57,589 --> 00:54:55,359
you call our people we we've got to

1368
00:54:59,750 --> 00:54:57,599
check out the saucer life please

1369
00:55:03,829 --> 00:54:59,760
that's right i um i'm willing to work a

1370
00:55:05,990 --> 00:55:03,839
deal so schmidt is uh is convicted of uh

1371
00:55:07,750 --> 00:55:06,000
fraud and selling securities without a

1372
00:55:09,430 --> 00:55:07,760
license and selling securities that

1373
00:55:10,710 --> 00:55:09,440
don't exist which i think is a separate

1374
00:55:13,190 --> 00:55:10,720
crime

1375
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:13,200
he uh goes to prison for

1376
00:55:16,549 --> 00:55:15,359
four or five years something like that

1377
00:55:21,510 --> 00:55:16,559
um

1378
00:55:23,670 --> 00:55:21,520
in the early 1970s he never tries to

1379
00:55:25,030 --> 00:55:23,680
make a flying saucer comeback or

1380
00:55:26,309 --> 00:55:25,040
anything and

1381
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:26,319
i'm not sure there's any wider

1382
00:55:31,349 --> 00:55:30,319
significance to this story other than um

1383
00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:31,359
the

1384
00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:35,520
you know debunkers and and sort of

1385
00:55:39,829 --> 00:55:37,280
hardcore

1386
00:55:42,549 --> 00:55:39,839
this sort of no fun style of skeptics

1387
00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:42,559
talk about ufo people being frauds and

1388
00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:44,160
there ought to be laws and this is

1389
00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:47,200
criminal it's like look there's no it's

1390
00:55:51,190 --> 00:55:49,760
not fraud if you sell somebody a book

1391
00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:51,200
and some of the stuff in the book isn't

1392
00:55:55,109 --> 00:55:53,920
true you paid 10 bucks for a book you

1393
00:55:55,990 --> 00:55:55,119
got a book

1394
00:55:57,670 --> 00:55:56,000
you know

1395
00:55:59,670 --> 00:55:57,680
it might not be true

1396
00:56:02,309 --> 00:55:59,680
there were real crimes out there that

1397
00:56:05,030 --> 00:56:02,319
were committed um schmidt is one example

1398
00:56:06,549 --> 00:56:05,040
there are there are some others um some

1399
00:56:08,789 --> 00:56:06,559
of these crimes are

1400
00:56:10,390 --> 00:56:08,799
ufo related like this some of this the

1401
00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:10,400
crimes are like these are sleazy people

1402
00:56:15,270 --> 00:56:13,440
who were involved in the ufo thing um

1403
00:56:17,829 --> 00:56:15,280
i think sometimes we can

1404
00:56:19,910 --> 00:56:17,839
go overboard on

1405
00:56:21,670 --> 00:56:19,920
accusing people who might be making up a

1406
00:56:24,309 --> 00:56:21,680
flying saucer story with somebody who's

1407
00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:24,319
an actual criminal who's done

1408
00:56:29,510 --> 00:56:27,440
legally actionable harm so i've just

1409
00:56:30,950 --> 00:56:29,520
always loved uh the schmidt story just

1410
00:56:33,270 --> 00:56:30,960
got

1411
00:56:34,950 --> 00:56:33,280
so much kind of fun

1412
00:56:36,870 --> 00:56:34,960
goofy stuff it's not fun if you're the

1413
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:36,880
little lady who got ripped off

1414
00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:38,400
but um

1415
00:56:43,270 --> 00:56:40,960
other than that yeah it's just one of my

1416
00:56:47,109 --> 00:56:43,280
favorites so those three two sort of

1417
00:56:49,349 --> 00:56:47,119
serious long-term um significance to the

1418
00:56:51,990 --> 00:56:49,359
history of of ufology

1419
00:56:54,630 --> 00:56:52,000
love it uh those were perfect i i

1420
00:56:57,829 --> 00:56:54,640
couldn't be happier with your choices um

1421
00:56:59,829 --> 00:56:57,839
well i mean you do see you start to see

1422
00:57:01,910 --> 00:56:59,839
like you mentioned earlier these

1423
00:57:04,309 --> 00:57:01,920
patterns like even these three stories

1424
00:57:06,630 --> 00:57:04,319
have a lot in common um in many

1425
00:57:09,670 --> 00:57:06,640
different ways and this was what your

1426
00:57:11,670 --> 00:57:09,680
lecture was about at the esotericon

1427
00:57:13,109 --> 00:57:11,680
again my favorite part of the conference

1428
00:57:14,950 --> 00:57:13,119
and um

1429
00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:14,960
it kind of blew me away because i never

1430
00:57:19,510 --> 00:57:16,720
had really sat down and thought about

1431
00:57:22,069 --> 00:57:19,520
that aaron of how we see

1432
00:57:24,870 --> 00:57:22,079
these narratives sort of recycling

1433
00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:24,880
themselves throughout the decades and we

1434
00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:26,720
are seeing trace elements of that

1435
00:57:30,069 --> 00:57:27,760
happening

1436
00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:30,079
again today with stories like anjali and

1437
00:57:34,230 --> 00:57:32,480
there have been other contactees um in

1438
00:57:35,270 --> 00:57:34,240
the past few years a lot of them have

1439
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:35,280
been

1440
00:57:39,430 --> 00:57:37,200
outed as clear

1441
00:57:41,589 --> 00:57:39,440
frauds others are still

1442
00:57:43,829 --> 00:57:41,599
preaching their messages and still have

1443
00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:43,839
large followings giving them swaths of

1444
00:57:49,030 --> 00:57:46,640
money and whatnot for transcendence and

1445
00:57:50,069 --> 00:57:49,040
whatnot um that's an episode in itself

1446
00:57:52,950 --> 00:57:50,079
but um

1447
00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:52,960
i'd love to ask you about that lecture

1448
00:57:57,670 --> 00:57:55,599
what really inspired you to do that and

1449
00:57:59,510 --> 00:57:57,680
what were some of those specific

1450
00:58:01,829 --> 00:57:59,520
patterns that you really

1451
00:58:05,270 --> 00:58:01,839
nailed down in terms of uh these

1452
00:58:07,190 --> 00:58:05,280
narratives i guess yeah i i think um

1453
00:58:09,910 --> 00:58:07,200
i think what sort of inspired it for me

1454
00:58:12,230 --> 00:58:09,920
was was just i'm trying to remember at

1455
00:58:13,829 --> 00:58:12,240
the time that was 2018 that there was

1456
00:58:15,910 --> 00:58:13,839
something that was

1457
00:58:18,470 --> 00:58:15,920
that was happening that was um

1458
00:58:20,549 --> 00:58:18,480
particularly inspiring to me gosh yeah

1459
00:58:23,190 --> 00:58:20,559
wondering too i can't think of anything

1460
00:58:25,750 --> 00:58:23,200
i i think um

1461
00:58:27,510 --> 00:58:25,760
were people talking about meta materials

1462
00:58:29,829 --> 00:58:27,520
at that point i i think

1463
00:58:31,990 --> 00:58:29,839
there might have been the first hints of

1464
00:58:34,069 --> 00:58:32,000
we've got some meta materials that are

1465
00:58:36,309 --> 00:58:34,079
analyzed and i believe you're right

1466
00:58:37,270 --> 00:58:36,319
which sort of made me flash back to arts

1467
00:58:38,789 --> 00:58:37,280
parts

1468
00:58:41,270 --> 00:58:38,799
back in the 90s you know somebody has

1469
00:58:42,950 --> 00:58:41,280
sent art bell and and to earlier sort of

1470
00:58:46,470 --> 00:58:42,960
rosbo related things and all the way

1471
00:58:47,349 --> 00:58:46,480
back to to some stories in in the 1950s

1472
00:58:51,430 --> 00:58:47,359
um

1473
00:58:54,069 --> 00:58:51,440
crash retrievals ufo crash retrievals

1474
00:58:55,829 --> 00:58:54,079
so many in such a confined space during

1475
00:58:58,390 --> 00:58:55,839
the same years that we get them confused

1476
00:59:00,150 --> 00:58:58,400
with each other sometimes um and a lot

1477
00:59:02,470 --> 00:59:00,160
of them being traced back to

1478
00:59:05,349 --> 00:59:02,480
frank's frank scully's sort of debunked

1479
00:59:06,789 --> 00:59:05,359
and fraudulent stories but um in the

1480
00:59:08,230 --> 00:59:06,799
talk itself

1481
00:59:10,630 --> 00:59:08,240
some of the things i

1482
00:59:12,470 --> 00:59:10,640
i talked about are i think one of the

1483
00:59:14,710 --> 00:59:12,480
biggest things i talked about sort of as

1484
00:59:17,510 --> 00:59:14,720
an example is

1485
00:59:19,349 --> 00:59:17,520
this recurring sort of

1486
00:59:21,190 --> 00:59:19,359
story beat of

1487
00:59:24,069 --> 00:59:21,200
eisenhower having a meeting with the

1488
00:59:25,910 --> 00:59:24,079
aliens at um

1489
00:59:27,190 --> 00:59:25,920
fill in the name of the air force base

1490
00:59:31,109 --> 00:59:27,200
because it changed his name a couple

1491
00:59:33,670 --> 00:59:31,119
times back in 1954 and yeah this sort of

1492
00:59:36,150 --> 00:59:33,680
being traced to a letter that was

1493
00:59:38,789 --> 00:59:36,160
written to a guy named gerald light who

1494
00:59:41,109 --> 00:59:38,799
was involved in an organization called

1495
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:41,119
the um borderlands science research

1496
00:59:45,270 --> 00:59:42,960
associates which

1497
00:59:47,910 --> 00:59:45,280
had a weird sort of

1498
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:47,920
mystical interpretation of ufos and

1499
00:59:52,950 --> 00:59:50,480
predated ufos by a few years as an

1500
00:59:54,710 --> 00:59:52,960
organization but this eisenhower meeting

1501
00:59:55,750 --> 00:59:54,720
the alien story

1502
00:59:59,190 --> 00:59:55,760
will

1503
01:00:00,870 --> 00:59:59,200
get worked and reworked and reworked

1504
01:00:03,670 --> 01:00:00,880
into

1505
01:00:06,470 --> 01:00:03,680
conspiratorial ufo stories

1506
01:00:07,270 --> 01:00:06,480
going forward it's just a constant theme

1507
01:00:12,230 --> 01:00:07,280
it's

1508
01:00:13,510 --> 01:00:12,240
are variations on it and there are

1509
01:00:15,589 --> 01:00:13,520
um

1510
01:00:17,829 --> 01:00:15,599
you know sometimes the year is given is

1511
01:00:19,589 --> 01:00:17,839
different sometimes there's talk of a

1512
01:00:22,390 --> 01:00:19,599
treaty that comes out of it either the

1513
01:00:25,349 --> 01:00:22,400
treaty of grenada or the treaty of

1514
01:00:28,789 --> 01:00:25,359
greater which isn't a word and i think

1515
01:00:31,750 --> 01:00:28,799
sometimes what you have is this story is

1516
01:00:33,910 --> 01:00:31,760
it's like a game of telephone right um

1517
01:00:35,670 --> 01:00:33,920
only with people mishearing things and

1518
01:00:38,390 --> 01:00:35,680
then writing them down so treaty

1519
01:00:41,750 --> 01:00:38,400
somebody says treaty of granada somebody

1520
01:00:44,470 --> 01:00:41,760
hears that on a on a garbled audio clip

1521
01:00:45,990 --> 01:00:44,480
of phil schneider talking about his days

1522
01:00:48,630 --> 01:00:46,000
working in an underground base and they

1523
01:00:50,230 --> 01:00:48,640
hear greyada so on their their website

1524
01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:50,240
they write the treaty of grayada was

1525
01:00:55,430 --> 01:00:53,280
blah blah blah that's not a word um so

1526
01:00:58,710 --> 01:00:55,440
these things just keep just keep going

1527
01:01:00,870 --> 01:00:58,720
and and getting recycled and um just

1528
01:01:03,430 --> 01:01:00,880
getting woven into whatever new

1529
01:01:06,549 --> 01:01:03,440
narrative is out there the contact e

1530
01:01:09,510 --> 01:01:06,559
stuff like i've i've mentioned gets

1531
01:01:10,549 --> 01:01:09,520
talked about and um and and remodeled

1532
01:01:13,589 --> 01:01:10,559
and i think

1533
01:01:16,630 --> 01:01:13,599
if you look back in the 1990s some of

1534
01:01:19,670 --> 01:01:16,640
stephen greer's very early disclosure

1535
01:01:23,670 --> 01:01:19,680
project stuff and seasetti stuff

1536
01:01:26,150 --> 01:01:23,680
with his you know promise of um you know

1537
01:01:28,710 --> 01:01:26,160
new energy sources and new technology

1538
01:01:30,309 --> 01:01:28,720
that will happen you know

1539
01:01:32,069 --> 01:01:30,319
there's a happy ending down the road the

1540
01:01:34,630 --> 01:01:32,079
aliens are more advanced and they want

1541
01:01:36,710 --> 01:01:34,640
this for us even more so there is um a

1542
01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:36,720
guy named richard boylan who i think is

1543
01:01:39,270 --> 01:01:38,480
still out there um

1544
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:39,280
who

1545
01:01:45,030 --> 01:01:43,040
and alien fleets and these people have

1546
01:01:47,349 --> 01:01:45,040
names and he says that he's one of their

1547
01:01:49,910 --> 01:01:47,359
diplomats now serving as a liaison

1548
01:01:52,430 --> 01:01:49,920
between earth and the aliens and this is

1549
01:01:55,029 --> 01:01:52,440
nothing but but warmed over

1550
01:01:56,789 --> 01:01:55,039
contactioism with about

1551
01:02:00,230 --> 01:01:56,799
fifty percent of the fun

1552
01:02:02,789 --> 01:02:00,240
sort of um subtracted from it so these

1553
01:02:04,150 --> 01:02:02,799
things do happen over and over and over

1554
01:02:06,470 --> 01:02:04,160
again

1555
01:02:08,150 --> 01:02:06,480
yeah it's amazing and like i said it

1556
01:02:10,150 --> 01:02:08,160
just it really puts things into

1557
01:02:12,710 --> 01:02:10,160
perspective when you look at everything

1558
01:02:14,549 --> 01:02:12,720
happening today and uh that actually

1559
01:02:16,069 --> 01:02:14,559
leads into i've got two listener

1560
01:02:18,150 --> 01:02:16,079
questions aaron if you're willing to

1561
01:02:20,150 --> 01:02:18,160
stick around for those thank you and

1562
01:02:22,470 --> 01:02:20,160
we're also uh aaron is going to be

1563
01:02:25,510 --> 01:02:22,480
sharing one more contacty story with our

1564
01:02:27,430 --> 01:02:25,520
patreon subscribers so be sure to head

1565
01:02:29,510 --> 01:02:27,440
on over to patreon.com

1566
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:29,520
somewhereskies and you can check out

1567
01:02:34,230 --> 01:02:31,200
that little bonus jam he's going to give

1568
01:02:36,549 --> 01:02:34,240
to us that's my shameless plug moving on

1569
01:02:39,109 --> 01:02:36,559
to our first listener question aaron uh

1570
01:02:42,069 --> 01:02:39,119
this comes from dennis he wants to know

1571
01:02:44,549 --> 01:02:42,079
um because you focus so much on

1572
01:02:46,710 --> 01:02:44,559
contactees and sort of the influence

1573
01:02:50,069 --> 01:02:46,720
they've had on pop culture and vice

1574
01:02:51,750 --> 01:02:50,079
versa and cultural culture in general um

1575
01:02:54,069 --> 01:02:51,760
what do you personally make of all the

1576
01:02:56,549 --> 01:02:54,079
stuff going on today we have the

1577
01:02:58,789 --> 01:02:56,559
military ufos the pentagon getting

1578
01:03:00,630 --> 01:02:58,799
involved like you mentioned we're kind

1579
01:03:03,670 --> 01:03:00,640
of living in a very nuts and bolts

1580
01:03:05,670 --> 01:03:03,680
ufology right now with the government um

1581
01:03:07,190 --> 01:03:05,680
where do you contact eastlay in all of

1582
01:03:09,910 --> 01:03:07,200
this that seems to be a big question

1583
01:03:11,990 --> 01:03:09,920
right now when will it be their time to

1584
01:03:13,829 --> 01:03:12,000
get involved with this huge conversation

1585
01:03:16,230 --> 01:03:13,839
happening right now what do you make of

1586
01:03:18,470 --> 01:03:16,240
all of it i i don't think that i i don't

1587
01:03:20,710 --> 01:03:18,480
think the contactees need a time i think

1588
01:03:23,190 --> 01:03:20,720
it's always contact d time for the

1589
01:03:24,309 --> 01:03:23,200
contactees and for those who are

1590
01:03:26,230 --> 01:03:24,319
um

1591
01:03:28,789 --> 01:03:26,240
susceptible to their message open to

1592
01:03:30,870 --> 01:03:28,799
their message because the contact d

1593
01:03:32,870 --> 01:03:30,880
movement contact the ideas unlike the

1594
01:03:34,630 --> 01:03:32,880
nuts and bolts stuff unlike the military

1595
01:03:37,109 --> 01:03:34,640
connection unlike the what is the

1596
01:03:39,750 --> 01:03:37,119
government hiding and who knows what and

1597
01:03:41,029 --> 01:03:39,760
and we need congressional investigations

1598
01:03:45,349 --> 01:03:41,039
and things like that

1599
01:03:47,029 --> 01:03:45,359
unlike those things the contactees um

1600
01:03:50,870 --> 01:03:47,039
rely on faith

1601
01:03:52,470 --> 01:03:50,880
and uh don't need um don't need proof

1602
01:03:55,589 --> 01:03:52,480
the the proof

1603
01:03:57,910 --> 01:03:55,599
is is in the the obvious truth of the

1604
01:04:00,470 --> 01:03:57,920
message of the space brothers does it

1605
01:04:03,349 --> 01:04:00,480
not resonate with your soul ryan that we

1606
01:04:05,750 --> 01:04:03,359
should live at peace with each other um

1607
01:04:07,270 --> 01:04:05,760
universal man yeah if i was being very

1608
01:04:09,349 --> 01:04:07,280
cynical i would say that the nuts and

1609
01:04:12,150 --> 01:04:09,359
bolts stuff relies a lot on faith as

1610
01:04:13,670 --> 01:04:12,160
well um faith that people are telling

1611
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:13,680
the truth when they said they had these

1612
01:04:17,670 --> 01:04:15,680
encounters faith that the videos are

1613
01:04:19,990 --> 01:04:17,680
sourced from where they actually say

1614
01:04:22,950 --> 01:04:20,000
they're sourced faith that this isn't

1615
01:04:25,270 --> 01:04:22,960
some sort of gigantic op being run for

1616
01:04:27,829 --> 01:04:25,280
whatever reason we can't understand and

1617
01:04:29,589 --> 01:04:27,839
might not understand yet um

1618
01:04:31,829 --> 01:04:29,599
faith that people had the jobs they say

1619
01:04:33,430 --> 01:04:31,839
they had you know there's a lot of faith

1620
01:04:36,230 --> 01:04:33,440
involved in the nuts and bolts side as

1621
01:04:38,950 --> 01:04:36,240
well but i think one of the reasons that

1622
01:04:41,670 --> 01:04:38,960
the contactees have persisted

1623
01:04:43,750 --> 01:04:41,680
is because

1624
01:04:45,589 --> 01:04:43,760
it's always their time

1625
01:04:47,589 --> 01:04:45,599
the message is timeless can be tailored

1626
01:04:50,789 --> 01:04:47,599
for a particular context

1627
01:04:53,829 --> 01:04:50,799
but it's not as tied to the news cycle

1628
01:04:56,069 --> 01:04:53,839
and it doesn't rely on the acceptance

1629
01:04:58,630 --> 01:04:56,079
and attention of

1630
01:05:01,349 --> 01:04:58,640
mainstream media and politicians and

1631
01:05:03,349 --> 01:05:01,359
scientists getting on board

1632
01:05:06,390 --> 01:05:03,359
i think sort of traditional nuts and

1633
01:05:09,910 --> 01:05:06,400
bolts ufology has this sort of

1634
01:05:13,430 --> 01:05:09,920
inferiority complex and desire to be

1635
01:05:14,230 --> 01:05:13,440
accepted and embraced by

1636
01:05:16,309 --> 01:05:14,240
um

1637
01:05:18,549 --> 01:05:16,319
by

1638
01:05:21,829 --> 01:05:18,559
regular scientists who aren't

1639
01:05:24,309 --> 01:05:21,839
scientists with a ufo

1640
01:05:25,910 --> 01:05:24,319
contactees don't need that they've got

1641
01:05:29,270 --> 01:05:25,920
all they need because

1642
01:05:32,470 --> 01:05:29,280
orthon told me or orthon told adamski or

1643
01:05:33,750 --> 01:05:32,480
ashtar channeled this message um

1644
01:05:38,470 --> 01:05:33,760
it's

1645
01:05:41,430 --> 01:05:38,480
divide between science and spirituality

1646
01:05:43,589 --> 01:05:41,440
i think in a lot of ways there are um

1647
01:05:46,150 --> 01:05:43,599
there's no level of scientific proof

1648
01:05:48,829 --> 01:05:46,160
that could validate or invalidate an

1649
01:05:50,789 --> 01:05:48,839
individual's personal

1650
01:05:54,069 --> 01:05:50,799
experience so

1651
01:05:56,870 --> 01:05:54,079
um and the personal experience aspect is

1652
01:05:58,470 --> 01:05:56,880
so at the heart of the contact e way of

1653
01:05:59,349 --> 01:05:58,480
doing things or way of thinking about

1654
01:06:00,470 --> 01:05:59,359
things

1655
01:06:02,470 --> 01:06:00,480
that

1656
01:06:04,870 --> 01:06:02,480
sort of rationality doesn't really enter

1657
01:06:08,150 --> 01:06:04,880
into it it's almost it's very much a

1658
01:06:10,069 --> 01:06:08,160
separate sphere and i i think it will

1659
01:06:12,710 --> 01:06:10,079
simultaneously always be the contact

1660
01:06:14,549 --> 01:06:12,720
ease time but never be the contact this

1661
01:06:17,510 --> 01:06:14,559
time

1662
01:06:18,470 --> 01:06:17,520
i love that yeah it's uh it's contact d

1663
01:06:20,549 --> 01:06:18,480
o'clock

1664
01:06:22,390 --> 01:06:20,559
somewhere all the time

1665
01:06:24,789 --> 01:06:22,400
it really is

1666
01:06:26,870 --> 01:06:24,799
well that bleeds into our our

1667
01:06:30,150 --> 01:06:26,880
last listener question here uh lisa on

1668
01:06:30,950 --> 01:06:30,160
reddit asks um have you ever personally

1669
01:06:32,710 --> 01:06:30,960
met

1670
01:06:35,430 --> 01:06:32,720
one of the contactees that you've

1671
01:06:37,750 --> 01:06:35,440
covered in any of your work and also um

1672
01:06:39,829 --> 01:06:37,760
kind of play playing off of that she

1673
01:06:40,789 --> 01:06:39,839
also wants to know what is your gut

1674
01:06:43,270 --> 01:06:40,799
feeling

1675
01:06:45,990 --> 01:06:43,280
to these stories do you personally

1676
01:06:48,150 --> 01:06:46,000
think these could be genuine experiences

1677
01:06:49,109 --> 01:06:48,160
with some of these people or where does

1678
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:49,119
your

1679
01:06:56,950 --> 01:06:53,599
so yeah two-tiered questions okay i

1680
01:06:59,910 --> 01:06:56,960
guess i've not met any of the uh of the

1681
01:07:02,789 --> 01:06:59,920
original contactees i've corresponded

1682
01:07:05,270 --> 01:07:02,799
with some figures who are

1683
01:07:06,870 --> 01:07:05,280
involved in the organizations that um

1684
01:07:09,670 --> 01:07:06,880
that still exist like the adamski

1685
01:07:12,230 --> 01:07:09,680
foundation um george king's aetherius

1686
01:07:14,470 --> 01:07:12,240
society which is the closest thing to a

1687
01:07:17,510 --> 01:07:14,480
successful

1688
01:07:20,470 --> 01:07:17,520
benign sort of benevolent ufo religion

1689
01:07:22,710 --> 01:07:20,480
that has ever been created um

1690
01:07:24,870 --> 01:07:22,720
wonderfully nice people in the aetherius

1691
01:07:27,270 --> 01:07:24,880
society so i've spoken to them yeah

1692
01:07:29,109 --> 01:07:27,280
they're extremely nice and polite

1693
01:07:30,789 --> 01:07:29,119
they're they're sweethearts um there's

1694
01:07:32,950 --> 01:07:30,799
there's a branch down the road from me

1695
01:07:34,710 --> 01:07:32,960
in suburban detroit that i need to

1696
01:07:35,750 --> 01:07:34,720
i need to check out some time and and

1697
01:07:39,349 --> 01:07:35,760
talk to them

1698
01:07:41,990 --> 01:07:39,359
so i i came a little bit late um sort of

1699
01:07:44,789 --> 01:07:42,000
chronologically to to talk to any of the

1700
01:07:47,430 --> 01:07:44,799
uh of the classic folks which i which i

1701
01:07:49,750 --> 01:07:47,440
kind of regret um

1702
01:07:51,829 --> 01:07:49,760
as for the uh the the other part of the

1703
01:07:53,510 --> 01:07:51,839
question sort of my gut reaction and my

1704
01:07:56,950 --> 01:07:53,520
feelings on these

1705
01:08:01,510 --> 01:07:56,960
i it's it's very much a case-by-case

1706
01:08:04,309 --> 01:08:01,520
thing i think adamski had um had a a

1707
01:08:06,309 --> 01:08:04,319
sort of philosophical cultural agenda he

1708
01:08:08,150 --> 01:08:06,319
wanted to carry out and uh flying

1709
01:08:11,349 --> 01:08:08,160
saucers were the key to that

1710
01:08:13,190 --> 01:08:11,359
um i don't doubt his sincerity about his

1711
01:08:14,789 --> 01:08:13,200
beliefs i

1712
01:08:19,829 --> 01:08:14,799
um

1713
01:08:21,110 --> 01:08:19,839
supernatural experience

1714
01:08:23,510 --> 01:08:21,120
um

1715
01:08:26,390 --> 01:08:23,520
probably the ones that resonate with me

1716
01:08:28,149 --> 01:08:26,400
the most as being sort of like something

1717
01:08:30,229 --> 01:08:28,159
happened here

1718
01:08:32,229 --> 01:08:30,239
you can check out our episode on him but

1719
01:08:35,349 --> 01:08:32,239
uh orpheo angelucci

1720
01:08:37,669 --> 01:08:35,359
was a contactee who had some very very

1721
01:08:40,229 --> 01:08:37,679
strange experiences that had

1722
01:08:42,309 --> 01:08:40,239
psychedelic overtones and

1723
01:08:43,749 --> 01:08:42,319
and there's just enough strangeness to

1724
01:08:46,470 --> 01:08:43,759
it that

1725
01:08:49,510 --> 01:08:46,480
i believe something happened to him

1726
01:08:52,870 --> 01:08:49,520
whether it was alien or whether it was

1727
01:08:55,030 --> 01:08:52,880
um some sort of terrestrial

1728
01:08:57,430 --> 01:08:55,040
i don't know sometimes a default to

1729
01:08:59,510 --> 01:08:57,440
mind control experimentation playing a

1730
01:09:01,510 --> 01:08:59,520
role in some of these things but orpheo

1731
01:09:02,470 --> 01:09:01,520
angelucci is one of those cases where i

1732
01:09:04,709 --> 01:09:02,480
believe

1733
01:09:06,870 --> 01:09:04,719
um something probably happened to this

1734
01:09:08,950 --> 01:09:06,880
person i think in other cases

1735
01:09:10,229 --> 01:09:08,960
there are people who might have had a

1736
01:09:12,070 --> 01:09:10,239
genuine

1737
01:09:14,550 --> 01:09:12,080
um

1738
01:09:16,149 --> 01:09:14,560
paranormal encounter whether it was a a

1739
01:09:17,990 --> 01:09:16,159
spiritual encounter a spiritual

1740
01:09:21,269 --> 01:09:18,000
awakening whether it was possibly

1741
01:09:23,749 --> 01:09:21,279
extraterrestrial and their brain

1742
01:09:25,110 --> 01:09:23,759
filtered things to be understandable in

1743
01:09:26,950 --> 01:09:25,120
a way

1744
01:09:30,229 --> 01:09:26,960
that they could comprehend and

1745
01:09:32,390 --> 01:09:30,239
communicate and these contact e stories

1746
01:09:34,390 --> 01:09:32,400
are are what came out so i think very

1747
01:09:37,110 --> 01:09:34,400
much on a case-by-case basis

1748
01:09:39,590 --> 01:09:37,120
i i don't i would never put myself in

1749
01:09:41,269 --> 01:09:39,600
the camp of all contactees were liars

1750
01:09:43,349 --> 01:09:41,279
and frauds um

1751
01:09:44,630 --> 01:09:43,359
i would put myself in the camp of you

1752
01:09:46,309 --> 01:09:44,640
had

1753
01:09:48,870 --> 01:09:46,319
a little bit of everything including

1754
01:09:51,269 --> 01:09:48,880
people who may have had

1755
01:09:53,510 --> 01:09:51,279
may have had actual um actual

1756
01:09:54,790 --> 01:09:53,520
experiences i'm not going to uh i'm not

1757
01:09:57,990 --> 01:09:54,800
gonna deny

1758
01:10:00,149 --> 01:09:58,000
that uh that possibility

1759
01:10:02,550 --> 01:10:00,159
yeah i i think that's a perfect place to

1760
01:10:04,870 --> 01:10:02,560
be like i always tell people i was not

1761
01:10:07,669 --> 01:10:04,880
in the shoes when this happened to this

1762
01:10:10,870 --> 01:10:07,679
person so um you know leave judgment at

1763
01:10:12,950 --> 01:10:10,880
the door see how it plays out and um you

1764
01:10:15,189 --> 01:10:12,960
know let them live their truth as long

1765
01:10:18,229 --> 01:10:15,199
as it's not hurting anyone else or

1766
01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:18,239
hopefully themselves uh you know it's a

1767
01:10:23,350 --> 01:10:20,880
crazy world and crazier things have

1768
01:10:25,430 --> 01:10:23,360
happened other than you know venusians

1769
01:10:27,510 --> 01:10:25,440
coming down and telling us to clean up

1770
01:10:29,510 --> 01:10:27,520
our acts so apple thank you

1771
01:10:31,830 --> 01:10:29,520
no problem for um answering those

1772
01:10:34,149 --> 01:10:31,840
listener questions and for your top

1773
01:10:35,669 --> 01:10:34,159
three um we're gonna head on over to

1774
01:10:38,870 --> 01:10:35,679
patreon right now you've been so

1775
01:10:41,270 --> 01:10:38,880
gracious with your time um again head on

1776
01:10:43,430 --> 01:10:41,280
over we're gonna do a little bonus wrap

1777
01:10:45,830 --> 01:10:43,440
up with aaron to tell another one of his

1778
01:10:48,550 --> 01:10:45,840
his favorite uh stories with the

1779
01:10:50,870 --> 01:10:48,560
contactees but of course before we go

1780
01:10:51,830 --> 01:10:50,880
man where can we find everything you're

1781
01:10:54,070 --> 01:10:51,840
up to

1782
01:10:56,149 --> 01:10:54,080
your past books or upcoming books the

1783
01:10:59,030 --> 01:10:56,159
saucer life give us all of it please

1784
01:11:00,709 --> 01:10:59,040
okay so um two main places to go you can

1785
01:11:02,790 --> 01:11:00,719
go to saucerlife.com

1786
01:11:06,870 --> 01:11:02,800
for all things related to the saucer

1787
01:11:10,310 --> 01:11:06,880
life and um links to my books and uh and

1788
01:11:13,750 --> 01:11:10,320
all of that um or subscribe in

1789
01:11:16,709 --> 01:11:13,760
in your favorite podcast thingy um great

1790
01:11:18,390 --> 01:11:16,719
lakes lore is at greatlakeslore.com

1791
01:11:20,070 --> 01:11:18,400
and uh we're on

1792
01:11:23,590 --> 01:11:20,080
i think we're six episodes in and that's

1793
01:11:25,830 --> 01:11:23,600
been a a fun project um so and we're

1794
01:11:27,189 --> 01:11:25,840
we're getting ready to to do some dogman

1795
01:11:28,709 --> 01:11:27,199
stuff so

1796
01:11:31,310 --> 01:11:28,719
that's gonna be interesting so

1797
01:11:33,030 --> 01:11:31,320
saucerlife.com and

1798
01:11:35,910 --> 01:11:33,040
greatlakeslore.com

1799
01:11:38,870 --> 01:11:35,920
perfect man and again i can't wait till

1800
01:11:41,510 --> 01:11:38,880
the world officially reopens and we can

1801
01:11:43,990 --> 01:11:41,520
head to nova scotia again and have those

1802
01:11:45,350 --> 01:11:44,000
uh you know midnight conversations over

1803
01:11:47,669 --> 01:11:45,360
here

1804
01:11:49,590 --> 01:11:47,679
so again i gotta thank you for coming on

1805
01:11:59,000 --> 01:11:49,600
somewhere in the skies today thanks for

1806
01:12:31,820 --> 01:12:26,640
[Music]